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Devan S.

Fishing Buddy
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About Devan S.

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    Blue Catfish
  • Birthday 05/18/1990

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    Golden, Mo

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  1. Devan S.

    SAFETY while boating

    I'm an avid life jacket wearer. I try to always wear a regular pfd when driving and use my inflatable when not driving as an added layer of protection. The video of the guys on the UF fishing team going through almost exactly what you did with a kill switch and life jacket on still makes me slow down a bit when running WOT.
  2. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    Al, It't not that we mis-understand him. We literally want him to make a semi-reasonable comparison which you did. While illegal gigging is in fact illegal, Iagree with your assessment. I also would say that I could theoretically cover miles and acres of water with a boat gigging while I could literally cover yards or sq. yards while spearfishing reducing the likely hood that I would actually run across that larger fish. Couple that with the fact that one activity is generally done in a river or smaller river arms and the other limited to lakes. One could also claim that spearfishing targets larger fish completely due to the fact that nobody is going to shoot a questionable fish. One has to risk breaking the law if they only target fish exactly the length limit which I'm not going to do. So sure I'm not going to be shoot 18" fish I'm going to target 20"+ because I have to make a judgement call underwater, in limited viability, that will protect my legal status. Once again that argument wasn't ever made though. I would also agree the rod and reel fisherman cannot make the fish bite and the spear fisherman can shoot IF he see's the fish. I really think this is the biggest issue that rod and reel fisherman have with it. They feel they are at a disadvantage compared to the spear fisherman. Once again, not the original argument made. I would also say that one can improve their chances of catching those large Walleye, through other methods in specific locations, in specific times of the year. A significant number of those anglers that make the claim that spear fishing is un-ethical are also the same ones fishing those areas in the time of year that congregate those larger fish. When they drop those walleye into their live well their claim is often, it's a put and take fishery. See where I'm going here? You cant fish the pothole trying to catch trophy walleye using live bait with the intent of keeping that fish and then turn around and beat the drum that spear fishermen are decimating the population of walleye. Much like the tourney guy berating the guys eating the bass and then dumping out dead fish after the tournament. The end result is effectively the same. My opinion isn't that MoCarp is specifically doing this but a lot of people that agree with his assessment are. I would also agree its not genetics, that's why minimum length limits are set so we have an opportunity to pass on those genetics. Once again, the mass of the discussion was on walleye, striper, and panfish. One is a rapid growth, rapid breeding group of fish the other 2 are effectively put and take. The biologist claim there is essentially zero reproduction going on. Those world record class walleye that came from the fisheries being discussed here are likely the last remaining genetics from those river walleye. The fact is those fish are likely gone due to habitat degradation(dams being built) and rod and reel fisherman doing exactly what I have posted above. Fishing using methods that specifically target those fish when they congregate and are easier to harvest. Not because in the 80's and 90's spear fishing was wildly popular. Frankly if we never get back to those size fish, it also wont be because spear fishing alone wiped them out unless the popularity of spear fishing blows up exponentially. So based on that where do you draw the line on the regulations on what method is and isn't acceptable? It's largely done by the court of public opinion even though we would hope its at least to some degree factually based. That is where MoCarp comes in trying to alter the court of public opinion. Maybe that court likes the random comparison that don't seem to me to hold water, google shock and awe, stretch data but I don't. I want to know why he makes the links he makes and how he comes to his conclusions. That's exactly why I started demanding answers instead of letting him drive the conversation down every side road in the state but he didn't want to play along. Which lead me to the conclusion he either doesn't really want to explain his position(even though his post history says otherwise) or he is just stirring the pot. If nothing else I bumped up my post count and community reputation. After all that is what social media and public forums are all about right?
  3. Devan S.

    Double drop shot rig?

    I fish something similar for bluegill this time of year on the points and run outs. I'm using small hooks and light weight. I try and space my hooks far apart but sometimes slack in the line ends up getting them tangled.
  4. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    Taney is a great example. Allows for both harvest and restrictions but that is not what your championing for right? You don't want a compromise. I actually read your comments S-L-O-W-E-R this time and they still didn't connect the dots for me. Sorry. I swear I'm actually highly educated but reading comprehension isn't my strongest strength. What if Billethead said his opinion any fish not harvested by fly rod and artificial fly was not fair chase? Would you disagree with him? Would you ask him to clarify the reasoning why his opinion differs from yours? What if he continued to say because its fair chase were not all out here throwing jerkbaits/arigs on spinning/bait cast equipment. Were not all down here running them down with that dang whopper plopper. Instead what if he formulated an argument as such: I believe that the use a bait casting/spinning setup allows you to reach a significant distance farther that an fly rod thus increasing your effective area covered which puts the fish at a disadvantage. Those fish are no longer within a range that they know you are present and therefore they feel more comfortable with taking a chance at an artificial lure. I also believe that the artificial lures commonly used in both spinning fishing and bait casting setups contain multiple hooks and are fished at such a speed that the fish cannot make anything but a split second reaction to determine if the lure is a lure or actual prey. In fact this is evidenced by the number of fish that are caught with these lures in which they are not located in their mouth but attached to the side of their face. It is much fairer to use a slow artificial presentation in which you actually pit your skill working the lure against the fishes natural instincts to choose whether to bite and the lure is embedded into his jaw instead of his eyes. This is exactly what I want from you in the comparison of the spear fishing to spot lighting deer or shooting turkeys off the roost. I want to know exactly how and why your making that link.
  5. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    I have fished a grand total of 3 days this year for Walleye(having a new born really cuts down your fishing days). All rod and reel as I have already admitted I don't spearfish. I managed one over 5#, 2 over 3#. Buddy I know did the same thing I did, 3-over 7# and multiple others 3+lbs. Wanna know how it was done or do you already have an idea? We were fishing within spitting range of 10 other people. Those people were certainly catching fish as well. Not a sole was spearfishing where we were and there were certainly a number of large walleye caught in that same couple hundred yard stretch over a month or so. Once again harvested with a rod and reel, from a put and take fishery. No issue right? We weren't spearfishing. Or do you now want to change the rules on that too and limit the time of year I can fish, locations I can fish, eliminate live bait? Where do you stop to accomplish your stated goal of a world class fishery?
  6. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    Once again you dodge the question. Answer the question. I didn't ask what the court of public opinion was I asked what your opinion was. What in your mind separates to the two activities? You said the drop in wildlife populations due to those harvest methods cause the conservation efforts. Yet everyone here has the opinion that the spear fishing done in a recreational fashion by the vast minority within the guidelines set forth by the AGFC, has a statistically smaller impact that rod/reel fishing does. So please answer me this: What in your opinion makes them draw that conclusion? Are all these people that collectively spend hundreds of days on the water that clueless?
  7. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    YAY! You kind of answered it. Your right unless someone tracks this you have absolutely no way of knowing. If AGFC came out and said we have data to show it causes no harm would you change your tune? The only caveat to my question was as compared to rod and reel fishermen. Of which, I believe we can safely establish that most of those that catch a legal walleye or legal striper or legal large bream,(assuming they are targeting them and not a by catch) are keeping them. That completely changes the narrative of the the question and would completely change most peoples answer to the question but likely wont change yours. Why? You're frankly to far into this to turn back now whether it does or doesn't change your answer. You exactly right it is fish hunting. Answer this question very clearly as well: What is the specific delineating feature that makes you okay with any form of legal hunting but not spear fishing?
  8. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    You completely dodged the question. I could have swore I made myself very clear what I was looking for. You spew random facts, compare apples to chickens, compare blatantly illegal activities to regulated legal activities and then wont even pin down your own opinion when asked. You twist the question to fit your narrative. I'm not asking about the size they target or anything like that. I am asking you in your opinion compared to rod/reel fishermen do they have any impact when done legally within the guidelines set forth by AGFC.
  9. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    Let's run this back a bit. YOU said you probably wouldn't have commented if it weren't for the fact it was shot vs. caught by rod/reel. Therefore your really not that upset that he removed the largest of the species or you would be beating that drum on every catch and keep post too. Yet you say you want protection on larger fish so they can reproduce(genetics are in place from basically conception so provided a fish is allowed to reach mature age they technically are passing on those genes but when is enough? After that fish has passed its peak reproductive stage and then the turtles get it?). You also appear by your own assessments want the lake to be full of big fish right? Your not here though commenting on every post of every decent fish that gets caught and kept though which tells me you like the idea but it really doesn't pump you up. You clearly dislike bow fishing we know that. We know the reason why and I kind of feel bad that those people take those fish and shoot tons of them and dump them on the bank. That is also happening on a scale incredibly larger than the spear fishing in my opinion. One is regulated tighter than rod and reel and the other is a proverbial free for all. Answer this in the simplest form you possibly can(its very specific forget your gator gar, oceanic spearfishing reports, anecdotal evidence from bygone years, all the claims about illegal activities, just the simplest meat/potatoes answer you can supply): In your opinion, does spear fishing legally under the current AGFC guidelines have any significant impact on the fishing compared to rod and reel fisherman?
  10. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    You wouldn't especially if your talking an 18" walleye to say a 24" walleye it would be a guess and check and pay the price if your wrong. However then he could come on here and cry and moan about those dang stabbers and not following the rules of the law just like those dang bow fisherman shooting and stabbing all those walleye and musky.
  11. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    Change your first sentence to all methods and you probably have 99% agreement. But wait do we let those fish at the end of their life just die and rot and provide for no consumption? Ah heck turtles and buzzards gotta eat. Once again you liken spearfishing to shooting blinded game at night and turkeys sleep on a roost, both of which are huge stretches. I believe somewhere in your history you hunted turkeys and probably deer. Did you call while they were on roost and then close the distance so you could be close when they came down. Is there much difference? So your not shooting them in bed but getting them between there and the kitchen. You mean you hunt deer and you strategically place your stand in a funnel between a bedding area and food source? Which is completely fair chase and suddenly its okay. Awesome totally ethical in your mind but from the mind of someone that doesn't do it that line between fair chase and not fair chase isn't as clear or as big as even you think it is. When the ball is rolled off the proverbial hill where does it stop? We already have people out here calling for the complete end of fishing because they feel pain. I've already told you the exact spot to go for the opportunity at large walleye. Its not a huge secret. Head up-river at dusk and look for the boats. However you know those spots just like I do and every other person worth a dang at using the internet. We're past the age unfortunately of figuring it out on your own or even having secrets passed down. Your right a large number of people fish for fun. That's exactly why there are literal hundreds of tournaments on these lakes every year. There's also a lot of people catching fish to keep. If you don't think its happening your wrong. That's why most boat ramps are jam packed full in the spring in search of crappie, whites, and walleye. Once again, you draw a comparison to a commercial fishery in Atlantic Salmon. Guess what were already limited to a couple fish. I can only catch 4 walleye or shoot 2. I can only catch 5-6 Bass. I can only catch 4 trout. We already there now outside of a few species. Back in your day you could keep how many? I remember my great grandpa use to keep everything they caught limits of 6-8 lb bass, boats full of catfish, truckloads of white bass, world record jack salmon. They used whatever means necessary gig, nets, rods/reels, traps, hands, you name it they used it. Then they took away nets, restricted gigging, no more traps, couldn't hand fish and fishing is still declining to this day based on your claims. Do I think opening back up those methods are a good idea NO but you continue to restrict access in the name of improving fishing but thus far we haven't seen that significant improvement so lets get rid of spearfishing. If that doesn't work lets move to live bait, then onto 1 per day limit. If that doesn't work then where to? Do I agree we are likely to see radical changes...absolutely. My concern isn't that your going to get your wish that people cant stab fish be it from a boat or however you want it. It's that where do you stop? Are you willing to give up all fishing? Are you willing to give up all hunting? Unfortunately you claim YOUR contingency of those that want stabbers limited and changes enacted is growing. The fact of the matter is that the contingency of people in demographics much younger than you is growing far faster and has an incredibly more restrictive overall view on ALL of these activities even the ones you deem "fair" Frankly, I could care less if MDC/AGFC or every state agency said I couldn't bow fish, spear fish, and gig. What I do care about is those agencies saying I can't fish or can't hunt. While you are older than me, you may never see that day I unfortunately could and my children likely will.
  12. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    I did my certification at Beaver as well. I know diving off the scuba park there are tons of little sun fish that follow you around. People feed them so their looking for a meal and they are relatively easy to catch by hand. We did see a couple small mouth pretty small maybe 10". In the water, they are almost the same color as the bottom with all the silt add in you only have 5-7 feet of what I would call true visibility(seeing items that are roughly the same color not seeing white against a dark background) and they are pretty hard to see they certainly didn't hang around like the sunfish. We did the clicking the pebbles together and it got the sunfish going pretty good. I could have basically sat in 20' of water with a bag of Doritos, bread, or hot dogs and fed sunfish all day. We did have a small school of whites swim by really fast. They are up in the water column silver colored and easier to see but they were moving fast.
  13. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    FWIW-I don't spearfish but rec dive and know that visibility in all 3 lakes is poor to terrible compared to oceanic diving. I know that outside of the 3" panfish that are fed at popular sites most fish are scared of scuba. I also know as aarchdale said its just too much work. I can pop open a beer troll all day and probably end up with the same eater fish as if I spent all day working my tail off diving. If I wanted a trophy I will wait until spring and run up roaring river/kings river and fish with chubs and catch that 14 lber along with the 10 other boats and bank fisherman that are there every night at dusk doing the same thing. Sure some guys are great at it but there's guys out there Rod and Reel fishing doing the same(they can keep 2x as many too) The thought that one rouge spearfishermen is shooting all those record walleye is outlandish. The thought that we should not allow spearfishing due to it even worse. If that's the case then lets get rid of bass tournaments because there's bad apples in those circuits. Cheating and lying not to mention all the fish they relocate. Let's not allow guides because there out there making money on a public fishery. Let's not allow wade fishing or creek fishing because people leave trash or get sloppy drunk and cause a ruckus on gravel bars. Get rid of cat fishermen. Trot lines and jug lines litter the shores and heck its too easy. No more keeping fish at all because well I want to go back to catching record size everything. Artificial lures only because everything else is too easy. Actually lets just completely do away with public access because there's a very small sub-sect of people that do bad thing. Better in fact we do away with the dams we can get rid of those pesky wake boats and the pleasure crowd. It will get rid of all those dock owners too. They don't own that water watch it go right down the Mississippi when those dams are gone. Forget deer hunting with rifles/compound bows. Fair chase em like the original Native Americans did with a spear. If you cant run all day to keep up with a whitetail to bad go buy your food. Get rid of trapping its not humane. Coyotes are the same family as my house dog. Why do we continue to shoot them? Man's best friend. Outlaw Coyote hunting. Where do we stop? Do you have to own a lake to have access? Have land to be able to hunt? We live in the midwest of what I believe is the greatest country in the world. In an area, where I can drive 2 hours and have more hunting/fishing opportunities than in my opinion anywhere in this country outside maybe Alaska. Maybe I'm short sighted and I haven't been everywhere but I grew up here and had every opportunity to leave and I didn't. MDC and AGFC do from time to time screw up and miss something. Could they be better? Sure everyone could but my idea of better and MoCarp's idea of better are different so the question remains how do they balance that difference? The fact still remains that in our local lakes, I can go catch a lunch and still have an opportunity at a record sized fish be it trout, walleye, striper, or long ear sunfish. You can think those days are long gone but the fact remains people catch trophy sized fish every year from these lakes and they largely go unreported. Heck there's been half a dozen claims in 2 threads on sunfish of people that have caught a record. I hope they never report them. These lakes cant stand being inundated with all those trophy sun fishermen. Would I like to have a lake full of double digit walleye heck yeah I would but it just doesn't happen. Sure 1988 was great I guess, I wasn't alive but your parents probably said 1945 was great. Their parents probably said 1895 was great and on and on. It seems we never revert back to the old ways that were supposedly so great. If you want to talk about sensible limits on bow fishing which is what you're really, really, really, upset about then go for it. Frankly you would probably find most people here, Bow fishermen included, want something like that why? At the end of the day, EVERYONE wants to enjoy the outdoors and the activities we love and make sure they are sustainable for future generations. However doomsday, the worlds ending, look at all the fishing decimation going on in other places spam, doesn't as Dale Carnegie would say win friends and influence people. At least not, the masses of people on this board.
  14. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    You want ALL angling to get better but generally speaking not ALL user groups want to see the regulations in place to grow the numbers you posted above. Would regulating to 5# rainbows lead to a drop in the numbers of people that can take home their 4 fish limit for supper on Taneycomo? I agree that is your goal and many other individuals goals but remember you have to appease close to all user groups. Maybe in 20, 30, 40, 50 years everyones goals become your goals. That effect doesn't happen from negative knee jerk, slap stick reactions. It comes from education and posting facts and data not conjecture. The first copy/past comes directly from your first link. (abstract only because I'm to lazy to read the whole thing): We conclude that spearfishing, like other forms of fishing, can have rapid and substantial negative effects on target fish populations. Careful management of spearfishing is therefore needed to ensure that conservation obligations are achieved and that fishery resources are harvested sustainably. This is particularly important both for the GBRMP, due to its extraordinarily high conservation value and world heritage status, and for tropical island nations where people depend on spearfishing for food and income. To minimize the effects of spearfishing on target species and to enhance protection of functionally important fishes (herbivores), we recommend that fishery managers adjust output controls such as size- and catch-limits, rather than prohibit spearfishing altogether. This will preserve the cultural and social importance of spearfishing in coastal communities where it is practised. Copy and paste from the second link: For a year (2011) we surveyed spearfishing in 23 Jamaican beaches. Spearfishing has expanded from approximately 1% of fishers in 1991 to about 10% in 2011. The fishery is larger than expected and probably produced 4 000tons per year. Though reef fishes dominated catches, other resources such as lobsters, conch and octopus were regularly taken. Many small juvenile fishes were observed in catches well below their adult or optimum sizes. A total of 58% of spear-fishers reported they would have significant difficulty finding alternative employment if spearfishing was banned. Spearfishers reported exploiting the entire island shelf and also nearly all the offshore banks, especially Pedro Bank. Night spearfishing was common and targeted sleeping reef fishes. The activity is banned and should be enforced. Our recommendations include: register all spearfishers, actively manage spearfishing, a partial ban for part of the year and a ban on using scuba and hookah gear for spearfishing. Rapid increase, taking fish smaller than optimum size(length limit). Employment dependent on spearfishing(commercial) and breaking the laws. Last line: Actively manage spearfishing, partial ban for part of the year. Both these articles come from Ocean reef locations in which actual visibility is oftentimes 100ft or more compared to what I would describe in our lakes as less than 10 ft. To summary in my own word based on only the top 2 articles: Spearfishing can be detrimental to fisheries if it is not actively managed. This includes length limits to allow fish to grow, bans on spearfishing during part of the year, output controls. I don't think you would get an argument out of anyone on this board that spearfishes. It is my opinion(and likely those others that partake) that AGFC actively does this today I would also presume that if they saw this as detrimental they would adjust laws accordingly. Article 3-discusses un-regulated spearfishing as well in a reef environment and once again explicitly calls for rules and regulations. Article 4 and 5 are just brief synopsis written that quote dozens of other studies. All linked to a oceanic environment and discuss further regulation for size/harvest limits. Most of these studies it appears to me were done in less privileged countries(Caribbean, Chilean, Pacific Island) or beach communities where fishing is a significant economic driver be it through catch and keep or commercial regulations. While fishing is a significant economic drive in Southwest Mo/Northwest Ark, surely we can certainly agree that general conservation is much, much different here than there.
  15. Devan S.

    Mega Longear Sunfish

    I agree I would like to see a slot limit. It probably would lead to larger fish on average being caught. I've fished ponds with big bluegill and bass. I've also fished a pond so full of 2" bluegill I couldn't lift a throw net after throwing it because there was nothing there to harvest them. They were essentially the top predator much like a Walleye or Bass without human intervention. It still doesn't settle the stabbing debate though. Still I think the spotlighting deer and turkeys on the roost is a stretch but once again yes you are right laws have changed. I would push those activities closer to the spear fishing in the river but obviously your opinion differs than mine. Your probably right spear fishing will eventually be off limits but with your doomsday outlook my kids probably will see a day when all you can do is catch and release or pay by the pound harvest if theres even fish around by then. Your at least making a legitimate claim albeit with other species that there is decimation going on(not from spearfishing specifically but from catch and keep practices as a whole). You bring up alligator gar and black buffalo but were talking walleye, stripers, and panfish. Two of which are considered essentially put and take fisheries at this time and the other being one of the most prolific fish in the lake all the while being essentially bait for the other fish. The management for fish size is already being done. Texas does the share-a-lunker program, multiple states stock florida strain lm, Tecomate is already working on the La Perla ranch in south Texas on doing a forage program to break the world record bass and have been quite successful. Ask yourself do you really want to see that come to a public watershed like the white river chain? Sure do it on private lakes or even on an assisted stocking basis or in a man manipulated fishery like Taneycomo but do you really want that to be the entire goal for all fisheries? Are you okay with genetically modified super fish being throw into these lakes just so you can get back to catching those record sized Walleye at the pothole? At the end of the day, I don't agree with MDC and AGFC on every single move they make but I have to believe that they spend their time and money studying and making decisions in the best interest of ALL user groups. That means balancing people that want to catch big fish, those that want to eat fish, those that want to catch a lot of fish, those that want to release fish, and those that just want to run up and down the lake with 5 fish in their live well. The root of my whole post comes to this. Would you have had the same response on his post if he caught the same sunfish on rod and reel and kept it? I highly doubt it. In fact, you probably wouldn't have commented because there wasn't a way to further your agenda against "stabbers." That's where your biggest beef is. You can spin it however you want with population decimation, ethics, or even legality but it really comes down to those groups that you perceive are decimating fishing populations by a means you don't like. Why spear fishing is included I don't know because frankly I don't know of anyone that goes after carp. Identical to how the Pomme forum had a post on a fish kill, in the time of year when fish kills happen and you immediately asked if they had stab marks in them.
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