Greg

Eric and Al thanks for the responses. Very informative. It sounds like these invasive carp ares something that we all should be concerned about. Fishncricket - For what it's worth I think most of us enjoy your "comedic nonsense". Greg

Poor choice of words regarding "invasive". I did know they've (spots) been here all along. But it does seem there are a lot more of them and less smallmouth - and I wasn't meaning just SW MO I was meaning the other areas in the state. I did some reading on silver and bighead carp. Obviously a problem. But I don't think it's clear how much damage they will do to gamefish such as small and LM bass. They seem more of a threat to buffalo fish - fish that fill the same niche. I'm just not ready to accept a doomsday projection like that. Sorry about hijacking the original intent of the thread - but I didn't start the talk about silver carp either. I don't think anyone takes too much offense on forums like this when the subject matter wanders. I certainly don't when it happens to a thread I've started. It just happens. Greg

I'd like to hear from some others (like Al Agnew). Is the carp situation really that bad? I live in SW Missouri and I haven't noticed it yet. I've definitely noticed the spotted bass invasion but really haven't seen a problem with carp? Greg

I think that old rule dates from the time when most fly fisherman used unweighted or lightly weighted nymphs. If that is what you are using i think that 2 to 2 1/2 times rule would probably be valid. But I tend to use a lot of beadhead nymphs and I tend to set my indicator pretty much dead on with the the depth of the water I'm fishing. It seems to work well for me. I sometimes wonder though if at times an unweighted nymph or scud would work as well or better? The theory being that an unweighted nymph floats more naturally and has more action. The problem with that though to my mind is that it takes a loooong time to get the fly down to the feeding zone so you need a really long drift and your fly isn't in the feeding zone as long. Still I'd like to give that a try....... Greg

I'm pretty sure that isn't correct. I think the NFOW has been entirely self sustaining for quite a few years. I think I read somewhere that it hasn't been stocked since the 1940's. I'm talking about rainbows. I do think certain areas are still stocked with brown trout. Greg

Interesting idea. The slot limit sure has worked on upper Taneycomo. You wonder how it would work on some of the white ribbon streams? I'm not advocating this but it is interesting to think about. Greg

That is funny stuff!! Anyone on their high school debate team? If not you should have been. Greg

I really enjoyed it too Brian. Your kids sure are growing up fast. My youngest turns 16 in a couple of weeks. No more dry run creek for us!! Greg

I really like Orvis Mirage fluoro the best for tippit. It just seems the most supple and break resistant. For leaders I use tapered mono leaders. I like Rio leaders the best but the bass pro brand is pretty good too and cheaper. I can generally get a lot of use out of a 9 ft leader. The leader gradually becomes shorter but I'll extend the life by tying on some mono tippet and then the fluoro tippet. Greg

Beautiful fish. Not just big but nicely colored too. Greg

Wow. I guess I really just don't understand the anti-trout stance of a few on this board. Just because trout are not native to MO? Trout are always going to be limited to certain pretty small areas of our streams. There are many dedicated trout fisherman in MO. Given that trout are obviously not going to expand their range it seems pretty reasonable to keep the current trout waters status quo. Greg

You might check out the Sage Vantage too. I've cast one and it could very well fit your requirements. Greg

I think those reels were low quality just because of their price point which was very low. SA sure makes top quality fly line so hopefully this will be a good thing. Greg

Very well stated Al. I don't have near your experience but I've noticed some of the same things. I've fished the Jack's Fork around Alley Spring several times and my impression also was that the water was just too cold for smallmouth to thrive. I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion that trout and smallmouth in general don't directly compete with each other. In general I think our MDC has done a fine job of balancing these 2 resources. Could it be made even better with some tweaking? Possibly. Greg

Wow beautiful fish. Greg

I use a knotless tapered leader generally the 9 ft length and tapered to 5 or 6X. I generally then tie on (surgeon double loop knot) 2 feet or so of tippet - 5X to 7X fluorocarbon depending on conditions. As far as brands I like Rio leaders the best but the bass pro brand is pretty good and cheaper. For Tippet the Rio is good but the Orvis mirage is my favorite. Greg

That's a good point. Actually areas like the trout parks probably protect the more delicate smallmouth AND wild trout areas (like Crane creek) from larger numbers of anglers. As someone who fishes for both trout and smallmouth - it's very true you see a fair # of "nimrods" at the trout parks and other trout areas. However I have to say I probably see more of them (nimrods) floating the more popular smallmouth streams on any given day in the summer. Greg

I pretty much agree with everything you suggest. Particularly the trout parks. I think Bennett and Maramec could both do with a catch and release area. If you've read the recent posts on the Maramec forum then that park is a mess. And I have to say I've never enjoyed fishing there. I used to whenever I had business in St. Louis I would throw my gear in the car and try to stop by Maramec. But I don't even make the attempt anymore as its just not worth it to me. And it's evidently gotten worse. The only other thing I would add is better enforcement of the current regs. I know that's been said before but I think that would be a real key to improving things. Greg

You know I didn't find this mean spirited either. Unfortunately it is truthful. And it's the reason I don't do more floating in MO. The last time I and my sons floated the north fork of the white (about a year ago) we saw some truly unfortunate things. I'm not a prude by any means and the bikinis certainly don't bother me (or my sons). But I draw the line at some things. Like falling down drunks screaming obscenities. The worst was a drunk mother and father verbally abusing their young son. It was truly sickening what they were calling him. I practically had to hold my older son back. But the father looked like the type that would have a concealed gun or knife so we held our tongues and went on.... Now I'm through with my rant. Not all floats are like that one but unfortunately a fair number of them are particularly on the popular streams. Sorry I know this is kind of off topic. I do agree that the original poster should be able to charge what he wants. I would gladly pay the $10. Greg

I don't know about that. I guess it would depend on the person's experience level. I've only seen a yak on upper Taney one time in high water (heavy generation) and that guy was definitely having some trouble. He got caught in some sort of cross current and flipped. He made it to the shore but just barely. And he didn't make it with his kayak which went merrily on downstream. Greg

Funny post Fly guy. Greg

Be really cautious regarding kayaking or canoeing if they are generating during your planned float. If they are generating more than 1 unit I don't think it would be safe (in my opinion). Greg

My 2 favorite places to fish in MO are upper Taney and the current. I like them equally well. No doubt the upper Current is more pristine. But upper Taneycomo has it's own charms as well despite that "ugly chunk of concrete". The fish themselves are no different in my opinion. They are all stocked bows and browns. Both have very high quality trout fishing. Greg

I like the thingamabobber better than any strike indicator I've use so far. They are not perfect. They do tend to slide sometimes. Sometimes they get tangled and then are hard to reposition. But I have found them to be extremely durable. They last better than anything I've used and that makes them very cost effective. I keep them in all 3 sizes. I haven't found them to spook the fish so far. Greg

Trav is # 7 based on some "discussions" you and I have had in the past?? Just kidding you. This is the thread that won't die. And the wonder of it is we all keep looking and posting................. Greg