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SpoonDog

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  1. Obviously. That's why you support affirmative action, because it protects black candidates from racist employers.
  2. People have imperfect knowledge. They ask questions to get answers. They ask questions to get people to challenge their assumptions and views about the world. They ask questions to get people to think. I don't know why you're hostile to critical thinking, but it's been a cornerstone of western thought for 2500+ years. Take as long as you need to catch up. In my experience, bandying the term racist about only serves to blow up conversation. It's an easy, lazy, escape hatch for those who don't want to critically examine their own thoughts and values. I do believe everyone has blind spots, and should know enough about themselves to know that. I think people should be adult enough, honest enough, and objective enough, to realize when their perception of a situation is informed by their own bias.
  3. But we don't say "Odell got the job because he's so experienced and knowledgeable." Or "Odell got the job because he's a great leader." Or "Odell got the job because he always put more effort in than anyone else." Or "Odell got the job because he's a great guy, and a good person." We say "Odell got the job because he's black." We're telegraphing to the world what we think is important about guys like Odell. It isn't their experience, work ethic, or character. We see them as black folks, first and foremost. The only way an employer is going to run afoul of affirmative action is if they're not interested in hiring intelligent, hardworking, talented, honest, decent employees- regardless of their skin color. Is that the sort of business you want to be supporting?
  4. Where you or I live doesn't matter a lick. We both live in a society which recognizes citizens of Ellisville and citizens of Berkeley as citizens, full stop, entitled to the same rights and privileges as any other citizen in any other community. Doesn't matter where they're from. Doesn't matter how much they make. If it isn't important what happens in places like Berkeley, it isn't important that our society live up to its stated values.
  5. Affirmative action means an employer can't discriminate against a qualified candidate because of their race or sex. It does not mean an employer is legally required to hire unqualified candidates. An employer can hire however many women he wants, he didn't exceed the quota because he didn't want to. He wanted to do the bare minimum. He didn't want to give a man's job to a woman. That's the reason affirmative action exists.
  6. I don't know a ton about the field, and I don't want to tell you how to feel about your own experience. But how many women and minorities were you working with as a roustabout in Oklahoma in the 70s and 80s? Maybe they just had the same experience you did.
  7. Sorry, I misunderstood your position. I accept violent protestors exist, even though I haven’t seen any. I just don’t think all protestors, or even most of them, are violent. And I think the folks writing all protestors off as violent thugs and all police as guiltless heroes would be well served going to a couple protests and seeing for themselves.
  8. The median value of a home in Ellisville, Missouri is $173,700 more than median home value in Berkeley, Missouri. Proportion of owner-occupied homes in Ellisville is 75.3%. In Berkeley, it's 48.5%. The proportion of high school graduates in Ellisville is 95%. It's 85% in Berkeley. The proportion of college graduates in Ellisville is 50%. It's 15% in Berkeley. The proportion of folks <65 with a disability is 4.9% in Ellisville. It's 12% in Berkeley. The proportion of folks without health insurance in Ellisville is 2.9%. It's 17% in Berkeley. The number of businesses in Ellisville is 1178. The number of businesses in Berkeley is 644. Median income in Ellisville is $75,017, median income in Berkeley is $33,874. Poverty rate in Ellisville is 5.7%. It's 17% in Berkeley. The most common jobs in Ellisville are: Sales (16% of population) Management (14%), Administrative (10%), Business (9%), Education (7%). The most common jobs in Berkeley are: Administrative (17%), Sales (8%), Food Service (7%), Facilities (7%), Personal Care (7%). Ellisville has 21 police officers. Berkeley has 35. ...and Ellisville has 600 more residents than Berkeley. Of course you don't see the difference. You live in Ellisville. We don't have to mention race at all, folks. We can talk about discrepancies in housing, healthcare, education, employment, policing. It accomplishes the same thing, and it doesn't let us off the hook.
  9. ...you are so bad at this. The NPR piece is suggesting everyone should read all sorts of different books, by all sorts of different authors. The lawenforcementtoday.com piece is telling us the NPR piece is telling us we shouldn't read books by white folks any more. The worst part is, the lawenforcementtoday.com folks provide all the documentary evidence necessary to demonstrate they're peddling BS. They understand their audience isn't gonna bother checking. I don't think anyone's shocked to learn Russia Today knows how to push your buttons.
  10. Oh. I'm supposed to take secondhand accounts of violent protestors seriously, just not secondhand accounts of police brutality. The evidence is acceptable, so long as it doesn't challenge our worldview. Got it.
  11. If either made an offer because you were white or male and the other candidates weren't, would you have accepted the position?
  12. Affirmative action is not admission black folks can't compete fairly with white folks. It's an acknowledgement white folks won't let them. We see it in housing, in healthcare, in employment, in policing. We see it here.
  13. Mitch, this is why I always have to be so skeptical of your claims. lawenforcementtoday.com is not National Public Radio. An op-ed is not an objective news article. The NPR author tells us: "As a Latino, I've had non-Latino friends ask me to recommend Latin American authors and novels. This is fine, and welcomed. But if all I have to offer the curious-minded is literature that comes from people who look like me, speak my language, or come from where I come from, that's a problem." The lawenforcementtoday.com author hears: "The article is simply saying that reading too many books by white authors can be a problem" The NPR author isn't simply stating that. There's value in doing your own thinking, instead of letting others do it for you. The NPR piece clocks in under 800 words- it's an easy read. No enormous time commitment to do your own research, or at least double-check the information you're receiving is accurate. The lawenforcementtoday.com guy knows you won't do that.
  14. Sure. White guy gets a job because of merit, black guy gets a job because of race. People rely on that particular crutch because they can't imagine black folks competitive for the same position, much less more qualified. Can't imagine living in a society that values people for their talents, so they turn to the most obvious difference between them and the other candidate. It's an easy, comfortable way of avoiding any sort of serious self-reflection. Find a way to blame the other guy, and you don't have to work on yourself. Been there. I remember being young and dumb, with a rejection letter from my dream school, thinking they must have had to fill some quota. Could've just kept going down that hole, beating my head against the wall. Instead I extracted my head from my rectum and gave it some serious thought. Turns out it didn't have anything to do with race, I wasn't lighting the world on fire with grades and it was a pretty competitive school. But chalking it up to skin color meant I had no control. Didn't require me to work harder. Didn't require me to be more competitive. If affirmative action is holding white folks back in the workplace....be a stronger candidate. White folks invested a lot of time and energy making certain black folks couldn't be doctors, lawyers, landowners, business owners, politicians, soldiers, scientists, engineers, jockeys, golfers, baseball players, ballerinas...all based on the color of their skin. White folks were totally comfortable with race-based hiring right up until the moment it didn't exclusively benefit them- once we applied the same idea to everyone, the idea was unconscionable. Affirmative action shows us that when black folks are treated equally, some subset of white folks cries foul about being treated unfairly. Affirmative action isn't a panacea- if it were, we'd see far more black doctors, lawyers, scientists, CEOs, politicians, etc. We don't. But it is an example of the sort of tough, uncomfortable policy we have to put in place because we understand some subset of white America can't imagine black folks being treated equally. It's the sort of policy we need if we're going to be honest about identifying and minimizing prejudice in our society.
  15. Takes two to tango. If race relations get worse it's because some demographic group out there resents the idea black folks and white folks ought to play by the same set of rules. Who do you think that demographic group is, and what work would you suggest they do in order to overcome their prejudice?
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