Another First Timer

[Mark]

A buddy and myself are going to do an extended 4-5 day Upper Jack's Fork trip from June 11-15. I have several questions for you veterans:

We would really like to put in at the Prongs, if not, Buck Hollow. We are leaving it open with our take out -either Bay Creek (25 m), Alley Springs 31 m), or Eminence (38 m). Due to a bad back, 10-12 miles is probably the upper limit for daily travel. Often we are satisfied with 5-7 miles in a day.

I am taking my square stern canoe with the option of taking my 2.5 Mercury - while I know it isn't necessary, it sure is convenient sometimes - long stretches of calm water when we get tired of paddling, ability to turn around if we pass up a fishing hole, gathering firewood, able to make time if necessary, bad back, etc.. We plan on taking 2 vehicles and shuttling ourselves. Is there stretches of enough stretches of calm water to even bother with the motor.

I have read most of the post on this board about water levels. I would really like to put in at the Prongs if possible. From what I have read, anything below 75 cfs would be too much work. Is that from the gauge at Alley Springs or does it matter which gauge I refer to? I know no one has any way of knowing what the river will be on the second week of June, but on a "normal year" can we expect to still be able to put in at the Prongs on June 11? I would sure like to see that part of the river. Would anything below 75 cfs be too low to put in at Buck Hollow? We don't mind a few sections if we have to pull our canoe along, but don't want to work our butts off either. I was thinking if we put in at the Prongs if the river was at a marginal level but still doable, we could leave our camping gear in a car at Buck Hollow to lighten the load to get thru the Prongs to Buck Hollow stretch.

Another consideration will be shuttling our vehicles. Bay Creek access is on the left, all others from Prongs or Buck Hollow are on the right, so that pretty well rules out using Bay Creek as a take out unless we shuttle all the way around. But since we don't care about how many miles we go, would we be better off spending all week on the stretch from Prongs or Buck Hollow and end at Bay Creek? I gather that stretch is the prettiest on the river. Rymners access is at the 16.2 mile mark. We would probably want to go from Prongs to Rymers in 2-3 days, then shuttle vehicles our vehicles (and more supplies and ice) to our take out at either Bay Creek, Alley Springs, or Eminence. From what I've read here, the fishing and scenery from Alley Springs to Eminence is not all that great. Would we be better off slowing down and taking out at Alley Springs instead of going to Eminence? That would mean only 14 miles for the second part of the week - Rymers to Alley Springs. I'm open to suggestions here.

Again, we don't care how far we travel, if we found a great place to camp we may even want to take a break in the middle of the week and just hang out for a full day. I just want to make sure we don't miss anything that is a "must see" for a first timer. Of course we would like to catch some smallmouth, but catching fish is always just a bonus. Still we don't want to get skunked either!!

Feel free to advise on "must sees" if I am considering skipping stretches like Bay Creek to Eminence.

Lastly, I understand that the Jacks Fork has some tricky sections and for the most part we'll be loaded down with camping gear. We are decent canoers, but I'm not above walking the canoe thru tricky sections if it means keeping gear dry. All the "heads ups" to specific sections would be appreciated. We actually take our guitars sometimes, abeit older cheap ones, but still wouldn't want to lose all our stuff. I'd rather play it safe.

So anyone that can contribute to any of these issues, advice will be appreciated and printed out for future reference.

I am mostly concerned with advice on what is too low on uppermost sections. It would take away from our first time if we had to work our butts off.

Thanks Mark

[Gavin]

Sounds like a grand adventure. I'd keep an eye on the Mountain View guage if you want to float the Prongs. Its located on the bridge at Buck Hollow..I'd want at least 150cfs if you want to head down from the Prongs in a loaded boat...Not sure if the motor is a great idea. The river really flattens out below Rymers and the main obstacles are submerged rocks, sweepers, and there are a few sporty little ledges to run. Best scenery is between Prongs & Rymers IMO, but its all fantastic. Prongs or Buck down to Alley would be a nice trip for 3 nights on the river. Bring a good saw cuz firewood can be scarce. Moreover, the shuttles are LONG...you might want to hire that out to maximize your time on the river. I'd use Harvey's @ Alley Spring and park your vehicles in their lot. It can flash flood if their is allot of rain in the forecast, keep an eye on the forcast and have fun!

[Mark]

Do you think 100 cfs would be doable from Prongs to Buck Hollow if we left our camping gear in a vehicle at Buck Hollow? What's a sweeper - guessing shallow ripples that you bottom out that tend to bounce you off course and into trouble?? The motor does tilt up so it doesn't drag in shallow water. Do you have any idea or guess what Harvey's charges? Our only problem with that is we may need our vehicle for an ice or grocery run in the middle of the week. We are planning on camping at least 4 nights. Can you guess the travel time in a vehicle from Prongs or Buck to Eminence or Alley Springs. Looks like at least an hour one way. I read on here also that there was a problem with thieves at Rymers. Has that died down?

[steve l]

Four or five days = 3 or 4 nights? Three nights is perfect for me from Buck Hollow to Alley assuming the river is floatable. My reference point on the gauge is feet instead of cfs. My preference is 1.5 to 2.0 feet. Below 1.5 & you will start dragging quite a bit. The gauge gets to three feet & the river is moving along a somewhat better clip. Much less time will be needed on the river. I think it is closed at 4?

My wife I do Buck to Alley every year in three nights, and and we paddle basically not at all & fish it pretty hard. We also set-up camp in the late afternoon - just nice relaxing days. Go from the Prongs & one more night works out. Of course add another night & take a down day - not a bad idea.

I agree with Gavin - the motor is not needed. Again, no paddling really needed with the time on river your talking about. And there are not really any long slow holes - I just don't see it, but then have never used one. So as far as the utility of going back upstream to fish or to gather fire wood, just don't know. We go mid-May and rarely have problems finding wood, although we do have to work for it from time-to-time (Ie, digging it out watching for snakes & poison ivy!). By mid-June I guess its possible the wood has been picked-over. Would also depend if a flood has recently occurred - essentially restocking the fire wood.

About the only "must see" location on the river to me is Jam-up cave. Really a spectacular entrance. OK, the mill at Alley also.

Have been using Harvey's for years. Have never had an issue.

And the echo Gavin's comments on the river flooding. The JF comes up FAST. My wife & I had fun with that a few years back (somewhere back in the forums is a post from me w/a link to a video on Youtube). If there is rain be sure to camp high or where there is escape. And by high I mean rises at Buck Hollow pushing 10 feet or more are not unusual. And again, the river comes up fast.

Still two months from our trip, so nice to be able to think float for a bit!

Enjoy.

[steve l]

just saw the last post. A decent cooler should hold ice for 4 nights using block ice. I have a 70 quart cooler that can hold 5 blocks and it kept the ice for 5 nights in the middle of the summer on the 11P last year. Of course it will also depend on the cooler & how you use it (opening &closing all the time etc).

although you may have to search to find the block ice. There is a gas station I know of just off I55 in St James.

[ColdWaterFshr]

I agree with what Gavin said. And I would definitely leave the motor at home, you don't need it at all for this river.

Gauge for Mtn View is here: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/mo/nwis/uv/?site_no=07065200&PARAmeter_cd=00065,63160,00060

By mid-June, you will need some recent rains in the area if you plan to put in at the Prongs. I would make a habit of studying that gauge for the next couple months just to get an idea of the wild swings it can take. As Gavin mentioned, the Jacks Fork can really come up in a hurry. If rain is forecast, you don't want to be camped on a gravel bar.

I think you could get away with as less as 100cfs on that gauge, but you would have some dragging to do.

If it were me, I would put in at Prongs or Buck and take out at Alley Spring. Leave your cars at Alley because they'll be safer there due to the Park Ranger and campground host that patrols the area. My brother had a whole wheel stolen off his mini-van at Rhymers last year on an overnight trip. And as a rule, its not a good idea to leave anything in vehicles at any of the accesses. Rhymers is particularly sketchy/seedy area. A shuttle from Harveys at Alley Springs up to the Prongs will probably cost you a good $50 per boat.

Freeze some milk jugs solid - they should hold up unless its excessively hot.

[ColdWaterFshr]

There is also that trick of keeping a wet towel draped over the lid of the cooler at all times. Helps keep the ice.

[steve l]

Ditto to ColdwaterFshr on the wet towel - credit that to keeping the ice good last summer!

Also, I always leave the car at Harvey's. A little walk up from the access at the end of the trip, but there won't be any worries about the car if the river comes up.

[Al Agnew]

Mark, dump the motor idea. If there's enough water to float, you won't need it, and if there isn't quite enough water to float easily, many of the places where you might need it will be too shallow to use it.

The Mountain View gauge is the best one to use, but the Alley Spring gauge is located above the spring, and much of the time there isn't much difference between the two gauges. With a square stern canoe loaded with camping gear and two guys who don't want to work too hard, I'd want at least 120 cfs on the Mountain View gauge to float from the Prongs. But also keep in mind that the upper river from the Prongs to Rhymers has some steep little rapids and rock gardens, along with some serious sweepers here and there (sweepers are trees that lean over the river or into the river on the outside of fast water bends, too low to go under, and the current "sweeps" you into them, "sweeping" you out of the canoe or the canoe under the tree). Unless you are really good at maneuvering that square stern in fast water, you for sure don't want TOO much water. I wouldn't attempt it from the Prongs if the gauge reading is much over 300 cfs unless you're sure you know what you're doing in that canoe full of gear. I know you float the Eleven Point a lot, but the Eleven Point is much wider and more open in all the riffles than the upper Jacks Fork.

From the Prongs to Buck Hollow, the river is all short rocky pools and fast, steep riffles full of rocks. The pools start to get a little bigger below Buck Hollow, the riffles are a little wider, but it's still a lot of fast water to Rhymers. From Rhymers to Bay Creek you start encountering a lot more shallow, gravelly pools and runs, but with enough deep water and rocky riffles to keep things interesting. From Bay Creek to Alley the runs get longer and shallower, the pools farther between, and the riffles often wide and very shallow. From Alley to Eminence, due to the influx of Alley Spring, the river is much bigger and easier to run, but the fishing suffers. In the upper end the bluffs are numerous but not very big. The farther downstream you go, until you reach Alley Spring, the bigger the bluffs get. Below Alley the valley widens considerably and the bluffs get less tall. But the upper river is almost a canyon, with no bottomland, just a hill on one side and a bluff on the other all the way. Which is why it comes up so quickly after heavy rain and gets so high. It truly is the most dangerous river in MO when there is heavy rain in the watershed.

Jam-up Cave is the only "must-see", although I would argue that the whole river from the Prongs to Alley is a "must-see". If you wanted to, you could spend a day poking around Jam-up Cave, because it's a part of a very interesting geological system. The cave comes out onto the river valley in a big bluff. Jam-up Creek is a small stream that flows off the highlands toward the river to a point just a hundred yards or so in back of that bluff, and then the valley of Jam-up Creek swings away from the river and winds through the hills for another couple of miles before reaching the river valley. But the creek drops through a hole in its bed (which is sometimes jammed up with driftwood, hence one origin of the name) right where its valley comes closest to the Jacks Fork, to emerge at Jam-up Cave. Not only that, but there is another hole in the roof of the cave between where the creek enters it and where it empties into the river, which gives you a "skylight" into the cave. The creek within the cave drops over a waterfall a little ways back into the cave, and that skylight, at the right time and the right sunny days, shines a sunbeam right onto the waterfall. it's a truly magical place. So you could hike around the bluff and atop it, and look for the holes from above, as well as clambering around within the cave.

[joeD]

No motor. And I'll add this, as everyone else is spot on with advise. Please do not underestimate how tired you will be after a few days of camping on the river. Even in perfect weather, 4 or 5 days of gravel bar camping is TOUGH. Fishing, paddling, sun, setting up camp, breaking down camp, rationing, gathering firewood every night, sweating while you sleep, etc. If the water is low and you're battling the in and out game of riffles, day after day, your trip can become less than enjoyable. Especially if your cooler is not cold anymore. Not having anything cold to drink WILL SUCK. Just more stuff to keep in mind. Your trip sounds great. I wish I could do it. Have fun and good luck. Oh, and don't do your own shuttle. Buck up and pay someone to shuttle your vehicle. They'll keep it at their campground until the day you need it, instead of you having your car at a public access for 5 days unattended.