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Wolves And Elk Revisited...


Al Agnew

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Too me Tim "balance" would be a sustained environment with no more than monitoring by man and absent of intervention. I suppose establishing a new normal to serve as a center line would be correct.

Today's release is tomorrows gift to another fisherman.

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I think another consideration is short term evolution, if there is such a term.

Adaptation?

John

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Of course I think that we need to take corrective measures to make up for the damage that we cause. But one pet peeve, is when people think they are bringing things back to the "natural" order. Maybe, just maybe that's possible, to some degree, in a place like Yellowstone. Even there though, not really, unless you want to close down the park to visitors and put a big fence around it to prevent wildlife from leaving it's boundaries.

But especially in a place like Missouri: you walk through the woods and (in many areas) all you see is honeysuckle and sericea lespedeza and various other non-native crap. The idea that it's ever going to be "natural" again is pure fantasy. We can try to establish an ecoystem that is appealing, and has the appearance of being pristine, and undisturbed, but that's it. That's still a very worthwhile effort, but let's not go overboard with what we think we're capable of achieving.

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Of course I think that we need to take corrective measures to make up for the damage that we cause. But one pet peeve, is when people think they are bringing things back to the "natural" order. Maybe, just maybe that's possible, to some degree, in a place like Yellowstone. Even there though, not really, unless you want to close down the park to visitors and put a big fence around it to prevent wildlife from leaving it's boundaries.

But especially in a place like Missouri: you walk through the woods and (in many areas) all you see is honeysuckle and sericea lespedeza and various other non-native crap. The idea that it's ever going to be "natural" again is pure fantasy. We can try to establish an ecoystem that is appealing, and has the appearance of being pristine, and undisturbed, but that's it. That's still a very worthwhile effort, but let's not go overboard with what we think we're capable of achieving.

I think I agree with all of this. It also appears for the time being we're doing better and better in the modified environments we have. We've had our issues and problems lie ahead, but most species in North America are holding on or gaining ground. In other places the story is a complete mess. Africa, Asia, South America, Mesoamerica and the oceans are in free fall.

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Yeah good old Japanese honeysuckle. I know Kudzu is in the state and if you've seen it in maturity you will not want it here. Honeysuckle is almost as bad however and vines spread like it was shotgunned. The bush isn't quite as fast, but it has more seed potential in my opinion. Both are bad news.

Today's release is tomorrows gift to another fisherman.

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The big problem with attempting to return nature to "normal" is that in general natural doesn't recognize "normal" as anything other than ongoing change. Nature essentially hates a status quo, population changes due to natural cycles, fires, floods, droughts etc. Every one of those factors is like ingredients in a recipe, change/add/remove one and it has an effect on the whole thing, and some ingredients have more effect than others. There will never be a "man free" total natural environment, by our very existence we change things, the difference is that we do attempt to manage and control some of the more problematic things such as invasive species, habitat loss, etc.

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Just a couple nights ago there was an interesting NOVA on PBS that I had not seen about the effects of the reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone. As mentioned, the wolves started the much needed thinning of the elk herds, which in turn led to the reforesting of Yellowstone as not as many elk to eat the small aspen and willow shrubs, which has led to something no one expected - an increase in the beaver population of Yellowstone, which has led beaver dams slowing down the run off in rivers and creeks, which has led to less erosion and an increase of fish habitat along streams, which has led to more fish, which will lead to bears having more fish for their diets, which will lead to less stress on the elks as a bear food source, which will lead to more elk for the wolves to eat, which will lead to......on and on and on.

And not to mention the effect on all the other critters, plants, and environment around Yellowstone. It is truly amazing what the effect was of the elimination of wolves 70 years ago, and the effects of Yellowstone with the reintroduction of wolves. And we are just now realizing some effects we never expected, i.e. the beavers, and who knows what else has been affected further down the food chain.

Notwithstanding Yellowstone, it is truly amazing the effects on an environment man can cause with one simple addition or subtraction from the natural order of Mother Nature.

I think that docu came out about a year ago. That was the second time I have seen it. Its a really good docu and I enjoy seeing it.

You gotta love that wolf hating outfitter at the very begining. What a moron!!

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This is a pretty contraversial topic, but being a Montana native and avid reader of Montana outdoors I will shed light on this topic. Since the introduction of the wolve in Yellowstone park, Montana has seen the wolf go from being a federally protected animal to openning limited hunting on it. In recent years more liberal hunting has been opened and now trapping. Correlations have been made with the exponential growth of the wolve with the rapid decline of the elk population, expecially seen in the calve population in the bitter root valley.

Montana recieves a large chunk revenue from hunting, and this revenue affects many small business owners. When Elk populations have been reduced due to predation and hunting success rates decline, Many will not make their annual trips. This will affect many business that theses folks need to put food on their tables as well.

I believe there is a place for the wolve in Montana, but I also am a supported for active management through trapping and hunting. I foresee when numbers of elk reduce, populations of the wolve with reduce as well and a "balance" will be achieved.

Just my 2 cents.

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There is no doubt that the elk population available to wolves is miniscule compared to 200 years ago. It will be a challenge to find the balance between wolves and elk in today's populations. Bison were also a prey and of course their numbers are almost non-existent now.

I wonder if wolves have the same trait as coyotes when it comes to the food supply. Coyotes are know to have smaller litters when food is scarce.

Today's release is tomorrows gift to another fisherman.

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This is a pretty contraversial topic, but being a Montana native and avid reader of Montana outdoors I will shed light on this topic. Since the introduction of the wolve in Yellowstone park, Montana has seen the wolf go from being a federally protected animal to openning limited hunting on it. In recent years more liberal hunting has been opened and now trapping. Correlations have been made with the exponential growth of the wolve with the rapid decline of the elk population, expecially seen in the calve population in the bitter root valley.

Montana recieves a large chunk revenue from hunting, and this revenue affects many small business owners. When Elk populations have been reduced due to predation and hunting success rates decline, Many will not make their annual trips. This will affect many business that theses folks need to put food on their tables as well.

I believe there is a place for the wolve in Montana, but I also am a supported for active management through trapping and hunting. I foresee when numbers of elk reduce, populations of the wolve with reduce as well and a "balance" will be achieved.

Just my 2 cents.

Not a Montana native, but have lived there half the year for several years now, and have lots of friends there who are "on the ground", so to speak, including hunting guides. I know wolves get most of the blame for the decline of elk in parts of the state, but the point of the article is that the most recent studies show wolves are only a part of the problem, and perhaps not a huge part of it. No doubt that adding a top predator has to have an effect on the elk herd, but in some ways the re-introduction of wolves came coincidentally with the rise of the other problems facing the elk.

I have no problem with regulated hunting and trapping of wolves where their numbers warrant, and Montana has been fairly conscientious about regulating the numbers of wolves taken, while Wyoming seems to have been dragged kicking and screaming into managing wolves instead of trying to wipe them out outside the parks.

In my opinion, the wolf/elk interaction is a fluid situation that will eventually settle into an equilibrium in the wilder areas of the West, with a slightly reduced elk population and a more or less stable wolf population, but the wild cards of drought and overgrazing might keep things out of balance and bad for the elk.

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