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GENTLE

Is There Nothing That Can Be Done??

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Look, I dont care if it's Johnny or whoever the hell, all I'm saying in the last several years something has changed. Could it possibly just be unusual weather patterns, maybe, but that's a big maybe. It's just awfully odd how Bull and Beav, especially Bull, is always way higher than Table Rock. Bout every fisherman I talk to locally grumbles about it, I'm just bringing it up for discussion and maybe stirring it up a bit. The Beaver thread has been dead for quit awhile, maybe at the very least this will wake it up. 

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7 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Holding water like a swing trader holds onto pork belly futures.... is not putting flood control on first priority.

ūü§Ē

If flood control is priority one, then the opportunity to let water go should never EVER get a pass.

Flood control isn't about upstream of the dam.....its all about downstream of the dam. Once they pass water at Bull Shoals its no longer controlled, they regulate to a stage based that is reactive to other water coming down the Mississippi to prevent downstream flooding.

image.png

All the peak inflow records are 2008 to present but its probably not more weather/flood events is probably mis-management.

More water in = more water out or higher levels.

BTW I'm sure you would say this data is made up anyways. I get it y'all need something to complain about and facts and data can't get in the way of that. 

 

Irregardless what anyone thinks, the Corps laid out exactly how they intend to release or hold water in the slides. Read it you might learn something. If you don't like it then break your piggy bank open and throw your money at it.  
You literally cannot expect to live on or near the water and not expect high water and floods to happen. Its like buying a pig farm and complaining it smells like pig crap. 

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4 hours ago, Jerry Rapp said:

good explanation RPS.  Johnny Morris buying off the Corps, priceless.  The people in the Water Control Office in Little Rock must really be enjoying this thread.  It is threads like these that really make me take other threads (not related to fishing or Wrench's advice on outboard issues) with a big, big grain of salt.

Nah they see so much stuff like this they just read it and move on.  Heck this one ain't even bad.  I mean come on, where are the actual accusations of waste fraud and abuse, where are the calls for investigations, charges filed, congressional inquiry and oversight.  You can do better.

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10 hours ago, rps said:

the problem you address has several variables you have not calculated.

Calculations ain't got nothin to do with this, haven't you been payin attention? We don't believe in no  calculations, engineers, arkytecks nor none of that kind of thing. What ya  trying to do here, drag facts in to a good argument?  This all about how rotten the Army is and just who bribed 'em.  I thinkin it was the grid goons wanting to make more free electricity, he thinks it's the pro anglers, wrench don't care as long as we jab the college edercated fools.

I can emphasize, the water in the Elk drainage has been way too high for way too long too, and I'm bettin the goons that control Grand Lake o' the Cherokees are some how responsible.

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15 hours ago, GENTLE said:

Devan, I dont put much stock into what some engineer or architect tells me after 25 plus years of working with them. They can draw you some pictures and scales and crunch a bunch of BS numbers together, but in the real world their numbers dont match reality. Example: I have a family business with several buildings and asphalt around them. When we were in the planning stages and going to city council meetings and whatnot, the mayor( who was a retired engineer by the way) came out with a bunch of calculations from our run off, and told people at those meetings that we'd FLOOD the town. Well long story short, we got approval to build and guess what, no such flooding has occurred in the 11+ years we've been there. Point being, numbers can be manipulated to be whatever you want them to be. Oh and by the way, ole Johnny has alot more interest in Table Rock than just selling shirts, if you havent noticed he owns everything on the east side of the lake.

25+ years of working with them does not equal that 1 mayor that 1 time that you claim was a retired engineer.¬† Anyhow, carry on with your ignorant rants.¬†¬†ūü§£

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4 hours ago, top_dollar said:

25+ years of working with them does not equal that 1 mayor that 1 time that you claim was a retired engineer.¬† Anyhow, carry on with your ignorant rants.¬†¬†ūü§£

Umm, well that was just one instance, ranging from laying utility lines to residential and commercial construction, I've had my fair share of dealing with engineers and architects. Their ideas and designs aren't always in touch with reality. But if you want to keep your head in the sand, and just accept whatever line you've been told, that's your right to do so. Several of you guys say high water in our lakes only effects recreational activities, but tell that to the folks out at Lead Hill, people that make their living directly from Bull, ask them how having the lake 40ft high every summer effects their livelihood. I will keep on with my ignorant rants.

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37 minutes ago, GENTLE said:

having the lake 40ft high every summer effects their livelihood

40'?  That's more than I would have guessed possible. Is this flooding much land that is not USACE owned?

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1 hour ago, tjm said:

40'?  That's more than I would have guessed possible. Is this flooding much land that is not USACE owned?

image.png

Red flat line is "normal" more or less for Bull Shoals.

6 years of data,  maybe 5 times its been over 10ft high I see 3 solid summers of near normal levels. Substantial flood in 2017 that covered the entire summer.  2015  had most of the summer high.....a couple high water times in off peak. 2017/2015 were high water years for all White river lakes we're talking record events in all 3 lakes...high inflow, high outflow, high levels. Rain falls....people get pissed because it disrupts there "season". Anyone care to imagine what 200k+ CFS going through Branson or Lead Hill would look like?( I can tell you lost business doesn't remotely compare to the actual damage) The dams and their operators worked exactly like they should to reduce downstream impacts. Guess what Bull Shoals has 40ft. of flood pool for a reason....it was designed from the get-go to be the catch basin. 

Although I guess I'm missing 40ft. high every summer. I'm not aware either way about what gets flooded but I would assume much like Table Rock the "take" line prevents tons of flooding that would happen otherwise(mostly because people are out of touch with the realities that come with living on a lake). 

As for the additional knock on engineers/architects, I work with a bunch that are idiots, some of those idiots call me an idiot. I also meet cashiers, bank tellers, employees, welders, hair dressers, accountants, car salesmen, doctors, lawyers, telemarketers, management, teachers, IT workers, pastors, immigrants, police, firemen, EMT's, mechanics, dog walkers, salesmen, painters, construction all out of touch with reality on a daily basis. There's people good/bad in every profession, people that will lie, cheat, steal, twist numbers to benefit themselves in every single profession. Being out of touch with reality, stupid, and/or ignorance isn't by definition related to your day job. It's a disease that effects EVERY single person in the human populace at some point and time because nobody has all the answers. 

FWIW- I don't really care about water level, I'm a farmer and I like rain until its muddy, then I like sun, until its too hot, then I like cool and rain, and the cycle repeats. I primarily fish Table Rock for species that aren't the golden child of the fishing world(Bass). I would happily take 10+ft of water. It opens up a literally whole new world of crappie, walleyes, whites, and catfishing for me. In fact, I firmly believe that more water is more habitat, better recruitment, stronger population of fish, which I am all for. 

It does seem funny however that on the Beaver forum the complain about high water, TRL forum they complain about high water, and Bull forum complains about high water every stinkin year. Mostly by people that are merely inconvenienced by high water, compared to what it does downstream.  

 

 

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On 11/14/2019 at 1:24 PM, tjm said:

They didn't have to build all that crap in the flood zone, hard to feel sympathy for stupid.  Every flood plain is surrounded by hills, people should live on hills. The Army just builds those dams so that they have a job, eh?

Hey I resemble that remark :) 

Shane told me today that they (Corps) will drop TR first, then Beaver and last BS.  I can speculate why but I don't know for sure.  I'm sure a hydrologist can do it for me...  but it has nothing to do with JM and BP.  It has to do with the volume of water is each lake and how each can release it.  Many other factors too, esp when it's "live" and there's water downstream to consider (flooding).  

They're always going to hold Beaver at high levels as long as TR is high - above Pool.  Pool for TR changes to 915 feet December 1 so we're going to see heavy release at TR well into December.

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