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Columbus Statue Removed

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4 hours ago, nomolites said:

I think you are giving entirely too much credit to the statue destroyers - most cannot tell you the history of that individual(s), and would not read the book if you placed it in front of them.  From what I can see the mob is generally interested in the destruction of anything that represents civilized society.  This particular statue may be an exception as there may actually have been discussion and debate prior to it’s removal, but it is certainly NOT representative of the fate of most recently.  I do not buy that that these are discerning individuals.

Mike

This is true...

Most of them could not read or understand much more than a comic book. 

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Where does it stop though?  Our quarters and $1 bill have George Washington on them, our nickels and $2 bill have Thomas Jefferson, our $20 has Andrew Jackson, and our $100 bill has Ben Franklin.  Yep, all slave owners.  So are we looking at having them all refaced too?  Or is it because they were all significant people in our history they should all stay?  If they are going to make this movement, it should be all or none, can't have some.

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I just like the irony.

What was the name of the chief Christopher Columbus met? What was his wife's name? His father's name?  How did the dynasty come into being, how long had it existed?  Did they even have a dynasty, or some other form of government? What were their holidays? What were their gods? What language did they speak? How did their economy function? Who were their heroes? What statues did they erect?  What did they eat? What did they grow? Who were their enemies? Who were their allies? 

I don't know, and you don't either, largely because Christopher Columbus and folks like him were so wildly successful at erasing their history.  Yeah, they kidnapped people.  Enslaved them. Murdered them.  They defaced and destroyed temples, religious and military monuments,  burned books, tapestries, art, and cultural objects, looted homes, palaces, and graves, prohibited the speaking of native language and the practicing of native religion.  If erasing history is bad, Christopher Columbus isn't the hill you want to die on. 

That's the irony.  If you think what protestors are doing today is beyond the pale, I wish you could've seen what Christopher Columbus did.

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I heard they tore down a statue of King George in Boston once upon a time.  Which goes a long way to explain why nobody knows who won the American Revolution.

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On 6/18/2020 at 6:58 AM, moguy1973 said:

Where does it stop though?  Our quarters and $1 bill have George Washington on them, our nickels and $2 bill have Thomas Jefferson, our $20 has Andrew Jackson, and our $100 bill has Ben Franklin.  Yep, all slave owners.  So are we looking at having them all refaced too?  Or is it because they were all significant people in our history they should all stay?  If they are going to make this movement, it should be all or none, can't have some.

Nuance sir, try it sometime, you might just like it.

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Put anyone on a coin.  Put no one.  Lady Liberty was on every coin for 100+ years and no one fretted about it.  Make America's coinage great again. 

People are complicated, then and now.  Washington, Jefferson, Franklin- every single one of them was a complicated, conflicted person.  And I think what a lot of folks are asking for is a more robust history- flaws and all.  Lyndon Johnson was a racist.  He was also a civil rights advocate.  Nuance, like Terrierman said.  There are folks right and left who demand ideological purity, and I wish life were that easy and obvious and black and white.  But for a lot of us...you just have to be honest with yourself and with others. 

 

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On 6/17/2020 at 3:45 PM, Basfis said:

As a country we are on pace to ensure we don’t have history to be seen. 
 

The Roman coliseum had horrible acts occur yet it’s one of the top visited sites on earth. 

 

Statues come and statues go.  Ask Lenin.  Or Stalin.  Or Saddam Hussein.  History is in the books, the monuments to bits and pieces of history or historical figures - well, clearly they at times - are rethought as to whether they belong in the present or not.  This is one of those times.  
I don't feel all that strongly either way about a piece of marble and what it represents.  If someone else does?  BFD to me.

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47 minutes ago, Terrierman said:

Statues come and statues go.  Ask Lenin.  Or Stalin.  Or Saddam Hussein.  History is in the books, the monuments to bits and pieces of history or historical figures - well, clearly they at times - are rethought as to whether they belong in the present or not.  This is one of those times.  
I don't feel all that strongly either way about a piece of marble and what it represents.  If someone else does?  BFD to me.

It's in the books until they come to burn them. . .idly watching the fire burn down the world makes us all complicit in the demise of the best civilization to grace earth. This society has lifted more people out of abstract poverty than any other socio economic platform in history. .. we should all take a long look at bending the knee to despots and wackos whose ideology is fringe at best and dangerous for certain.  I rest my case lol

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