Al Agnew Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 As Eric said, Royalex is the best material for an Ozark canoe. It's much lighter in weight than the Disco poly, almost as durable--just slightly less abrasion-resistant, and easier to repair the abrasions. At any rate, you want a plastic canoe, and you don't want a cheap plastic one like the Colemans, because the plastic is the quietest canoe material. The drawbacks of Royalex are mainly that it's more expensive, but also, I've heard a lot of reports of "new" Royalex being a lot softer than it was years ago, and that it needs some "aging" to gain its full abrasion resistance. That, coupled with the apparent quality control problems at Old Town, would make me a little bit leery of buying a new Penobscot 16 at this point, although in my opinion the Penobscot 16 is the best tandem you can get for Ozark streams--IF you don't mind a bit less initial stability. There's no doubt the Penobscot feels a little wobbly and takes a bit of getting used to. But it has excellent final stability--the rather high, straight sides keep it from going all the way over if it starts to tip. And it's the fastest, best tracking Royalex canoe available. A lot of people want, or think they want, a canoe that is wide, highly maneuverable, and feels very stable, and those people won't like the Penobscot. But I want a canoe that will get me through long dead pools with a minimum of effort, that will slow or stop easily in fast current, and will hold a ferrying angle well. I can make a fast, good-tracking canoe turn when I want it to, but I can't easily make a slow, maneuverable canoe go fast and straight when I want it to. The Wenonah Spirit II would probably be my second choice. The same "new" Royalex problems may apply, however. The Spirit II isn't quite as fast or as light as the Penobscot, but it has more initial stability, holds a ton of gear, and paddles well. Mohawk's Nova 16 is a pretty sweet canoe as well. It's a proven design that's been around a long time--when I bought my first Penobscot I had a difficult choice between it and the Nova 16. Note that Old Town makes a Penobscot 17 (17 feet instead of 16) and Mohawk makes a Nova 17. I have not found the longer canoe to be necessary, and the extra foot adds weight. I don't like the Buffalo canoes quite as much because their ends are higher, and catch the wind more. It seems to me that the Buffalos were designed with Arkansas whitewater in mind, with their high ends, rocker, and heavy duty construction. They are one of the most durable of the Royalex canoes, but the durability comes with more weight. They handle easily but are not fast canoes. I don't like Mad River canoes because their bottoms are a shallow V instead of a shallow arch. The apex of the V tends to be the first and foremost part of the bottom to scrape on the rocks and thus gets most of the abrasion and wears out more quickly. It also means the canoe will probably need an inch or so more water to float than a shallow arch canoe of similar weight and load. The Old Town Disco 169 is a pretty vanilla design. It will do everything, but nothing especially well. Stability both initial and final is fairly good, speed and tracking ability as fairly decent, maneuverability is decent. The big drawback is weight. Okay if you always have a partner to help load and unload (and the partner is strong enough to hold up their end), but gets to be a pain if you have to do it solo. I'm saying all this without talking much about price. Getting a good price on a used one could very well be your deciding factor, because any of the ones listed above would serve your purpose. It's just that some are a little better than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I've paddeled a Wenonah Spirit II for many years...Its a darn good boat...I can walk around in mine when its lightly loaded and I can stand and fly cast out of the front or back...the bow is pretty high though, and you cant turn it around to solo it, but I do w/o any problems. Its a bit faster than the Old Town Disco 169, but it drafts a bit more water because it has narrower ends. The Penobscot is nice but it doesnt have the capacity or the initial stability you get with the Spirit II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjulianc Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I also have a Spirit II, and I am very happy with it. I'll probably keep it until I wear it out. Its a little soft in the middle (oil cans), but that also helps you slip over those submerged rocks you don't see until its too late. If you are planning on going on multi night trips, I'd opt for a 17' canoe over a 16' if you can. That extra foot makes packing much easier, storing all your extra rods easier(I bring 6'6" and 6'10" rods with me in the stern seat), and you'll float in shallower water with the extra length. Unless you're planning on running some white water, I think the spirit II is the best bet for a tandem, tripping, fishing canoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Build one...way more fun..(http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=Merrimac) http://s147.photobucket.com/albums/r302/scrawford_photos/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darbwa Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 I've paddeled a Wenonah Spirit II for many years...Its a darn good boat...I can walk around in mine when its lightly loaded and I can stand and fly cast out of the front or back...the bow is pretty high though, and you cant turn it around to solo it, but I do w/o any problems. Its a bit faster than the Old Town Disco 169, but it drafts a bit more water because it has narrower ends. The Penobscot is nice but it doesnt have the capacity or the initial stability you get with the Spirit II. Why can't I turn it around and solo it? How do you do it with out any problems if I can't? You have not witnessed my inferior paddling skills have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 There is a thwart right behind the front seat...so you cant turn it around and paddle from the front w/o removing it. I solo mine from the back seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Agnew Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 As for fiberglass and Kevlar...I had a glass tandem for several years, and still have glass solos. They are pretty tough. Kevlar is harder yet, more abrasion resistant, but it can also be brittle, so if you hit a rock hard with it you might crack it. But the glass and Kevlar canoes will certainly work on Ozark streams. The biggest thing I don't like about them is that they are noisy--not as noisy as aluminum but far noisier than plastic. Glass is comparable in weight to Royalex, depending upon the layup. Kevlar is lighter (but more expensive). As for 17 vs. 16 feet...I can get by on overnight trips with my 16 footer, I use shorter rods than tjulianc, and I like the fewer pounds to carry. To each is own. The Penobscot 16 is a better craft for soloing than Gavin's Spirit II, but he obviously gets by just fine with his. And if the initial stability is important to you, the Spirit II beats the Penobscot hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjulianc Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I forgot to add that my canoe is Royalex. You'll find some options for Royalite, Mohawk and Nova Craft have this option in some models, but I don't think the weight reduction is enough to off set the loss of ruggedness. I don't know what others think about Royalite, but I'd stay with regular Royalex. I guess if you had lots of long portages it might come in handy, or if you canoed areas that weren't rocky, like Florida, it would be a good choice. Another downside to Kevlar canoes is they are much more expensive. That alone kept me away. This article is a little long, but is the best explanation on the difference between Royalex and polyetheylene that I have found: http://www.madrivercanoe.com/news_item/index/news_and_events/news_listing/royalex_or_3_layer_polyethylene/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne SW/MO Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I've been in a kevlar that was a very close Penobscot and I believe it weighed 39#. It was obviously made for portaging, but would work for someone who had trouble with more weight, like some of us old farts. I don't think the light initial stability is a problem with the Penobscot and I gladly give it up for the secondary and other positives. When I bought my first kayak I took it to a shallow hole at the creek and found its limitations. If you're going to own your own canoe and use it, it doesn't hurt to learn when it will go over and when it won't. Today's release is tomorrows gift to another fisherman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 All this talk had me looking at canoe sites...but this add on item from Mohawk made me LMAO... Check out the bottom of the page... http://www.mohawkcanoes.com/accessories.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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