I DON’T WANNA FISH LIKE THAT.

[tjm]

So I understand expanding swim bladders, but when we decompress too rapidly the gases in our blood makes bubbles that can cause serious harm or death, I wonder what happens to the fish's blood gases when they expand? and if they get bubbles like we do does that cause them to die later? Like, ya know, the air bladder might not be the worst problem the fish has.

[aarchdale@coresleep.com]

I fizz fish on the regular all summer long because i pretty much only fish deep.  Here is what i dont get, is they only float and need fizzed if you put them in the box. I let go short ones all the time and they swim off no problem.  Im also the guy out there wading tits deep fizzing all these fish people let go at a tournament that are to dumb to use a needle. IT makes my blood boil, i dont know if i save their lives or not but i at least get them to swim off and have a chance

[tjm]

28 minutes ago, aarchdale@coresleep.com said:

Here is what i dont get, is they only float and need fizzed if you put them in the box.

Time factor, don't you think? like the fish that dart up at hit something at the surface, the air in the bladder takes a few moments to become affected by the pressure and temperature changes?

 

[fishinwrench]

3 hours ago, Notropis said:

You're actually on the right track fishinwrench. Fish with air bladders can extract gases from their blood stream into their bladders through a series of tiny capillaries and veins in the bladder wall. That's how they adjust the size of it to remain neutrally buoyant at different depths. It's a slow process and takes time, which is why deep caught fish can have issues with overly expanded bladders. It makes sense that a fish bladder, adjusted to be the right size to hold neutral buoyancy in deep water will try to expand when the fish is brought to the surface and experiences much lower pressure. 

I don't remember the process the fish uses to reduce the gas in their bladder (been a long time since I took Icthyology) but I assume the gas is slowly reabsorbed into the blood stream through capillary system.

Hope this was helpful! 

It is helpful, thanks. 👍 

These gases, if in the blood, are consistently present within the fishes body though, right?   If so, then am I to assume that the location within the body is the only determining factor of whether a fish ends up with barotrauma issues or not ?   

Surely they don't just suddenly produce gases on demand.    

Am I wrong in assuming that gases are only produced through the digestion of food ?

[fishinwrench]

1 hour ago, aarchdale@coresleep.com said:

Im also the guy out there wading tits deep fizzing all these fish people let go at a tournament that are to dumb to use a needle. IT makes my blood boil, i dont know if i save their lives or not but i at least get them to swim off and have a chance

I mildly resent being called dumb, but that's ok.....been called worse.  I've been taught how to fizz fish but have never actually done it myself.  Fish mortality studies, being what they are, pretty much indicate that you spending all afternoon wading around poking floaters isn't doing anything beneficial to the survival rate of the fish population.   If you TRULY cared, and it made your BLOOD BOIL.... then you wouldn't have been hanging around supporting a tournament weigh-in in the first place.    😅 

Might sound crass and inhumane, but fish paramedics trying to make an impression on a few onlookers are annoying as hell to me.  Scoop them up and fillet them if wanton waste is your concern. 

Or, better yet.....keep track of whose fish they are, and have them penalized for a DEAD FISH.

[nomolites]

1 hour ago, fishinwrench said:

It is helpful, thanks. 👍 

These gases, if in the blood, are consistently present within the fishes body though, right?   If so, then am I to assume that the location within the body is the only determining factor of whether a fish ends up with barotrauma issues or not ?   

Surely they don't just suddenly produce gases on demand.    

Am I wrong in assuming that gases are only produced through the digestion of food ?

The solubility of a gas in a liquid is pressure dependent.  Think of a beer bottle when you twist off the cap and the CO2 is released….same phenomenon in the fishes bloodstream, or a scuba diver who get bends.

Mike

[fishinwrench]

35 minutes ago, nomolites said:

The solubility of a gas in a liquid is pressure dependent.  Think of a beer bottle when you twist off the cap and the CO2 is released….same phenomenon in the fishes bloodstream, or a scuba diver who get bends.

Mike

I get that.  But as I've pointed out.....the buoyancy of a bottle of beer or soda is the same whether it's shaken up or not.    

It doesn't float higher, or float differently regardless of the state of the contents inside of it.   

And guess what.....If you open the soda/beer, releasing some "gas", then put the lid back on resealing it.....it still floats the same.  

So how does the amount of PRESSURE inside a fishes body effect it's buoyancy?    It can't unless the fishes body blows up like a balloon, changing its overall mass.  And I'm talking about its ENTIRE body.....not just the size of the bladder contained within.

[Notropis]

1 hour ago, fishinwrench said:

It is helpful, thanks. 👍 

These gases, if in the blood, are consistently present within the fishes body though, right?   If so, then am I to assume that the location within the body is the only determining factor of whether a fish ends up with barotrauma issues or not ?   

Surely they don't just suddenly produce gases on demand.    

Am I wrong in assuming that gases are only produced through the digestion of food ?

The gases in the bloodstream are dissolved gases absorbed by the gill fillaments of the fish from the water which has various concentrations of them depending on temperature.  Not sure how that's converted to the actual gas in the bladder that controls the size. I don't doubt there are dissolved gasses in other tissues of the fish (muscle, organ etc) but I don't think it's as concentrated as in the blood.

[fishinwrench]

16 minutes ago, Notropis said:

The gases in the bloodstream are dissolved gases absorbed by the gill fillaments of the fish from the water which has various concentrations of them depending on temperature.  Not sure how that's converted to the actual gas in the bladder that controls the size. I don't doubt there are dissolved gasses in other tissues of the fish (muscle, organ etc) but I don't think it's as concentrated as in the blood.

Fresh blood floats on water because it has more than 2parts oxygen.   Once the oxygen has depleted then the blood mixes freely with water and slowly sinks.   

I have a hard time buying that a fishes BLOOD is carrying enough buoyant material, or gases, to effect a fishes equilibrium.    I'm reasonably certain that digestive gas is what is retained in the swim bladder.....but I don't really know.  

Fish do fart.... I've witnessed that in aquarium fish.   

[fishinwrench]

On another note..... Turtles seem to be able to float, or sink, at will.    A turtle can sit on the bottom effortlessly, or float like a cork effortlessly.     

But maybe they do so by gulping air.....I dunno.