3wt

Interesting input. I was looking at it to be more of a consumer driven thing. More like "i just bought X and love it" or "i've had Y for years and the warranty service sucks." It just seems like any time anybody wants advice, they start a new post and fish for information. I for one would like to give my advice, pro or con, or the gear I have used to help others out, and would like to look up gear I am looking into to see if anybody here has had good or bad luck with it. I tend to trust the folks on this board to not be total koolaid drinkers, in fact I have found more constructive cynicism about the status quo gear here than anywhere else on the web...I mean that in a good way. I really don't get much out of the published official reviews, and would prefer that we don't get into that game. Thanks for considering it Phil.

Yup...one of the juvenile delinquients I go fishing with once a year was frustrated and started putting little pieces of the slimjim he was eating on the hook of a maribou jig...This was in fly only area...Anyway, it was alot like fishing in a hatchery pool with trout chow.

"...nobody who did not know how to catch a fish would be allowed to disgrace a fish by catching him." I could out-fish everybody here with slimjims and a treble hook. Or I could just hang a trout line from a branch. It's not about just catching a fish, but how you catch them. I'm guessing you haven't caught many fish with a fly rod. Give it a REAL chance. Not just a few times, but learn how to really start catching fish. Most of the time, I outfish the spin-casters I'm with. And there are situations where you just cannot get to the fish with a spincast, usually on streams. Try fishing a 10" deep riffle with a spincast, it's tough. Try drifting a maribou jig or rooster tail under an undercut for long enough to find the fish, also tough. Try catching fish with spinning gear when they are focussing on hatching mayflies, sometimes they're looking nowhere but up. One more thought, if it were really easy, it would cease to be fun. Just like catching bluegill off of a dock with corn. Really exciting when I was 5, now it doesn't do too much for me.

keep your eye on ebay. Alot of shops are closing out their simms '06 stuff, so you can find some great deals. Also, just do some online shopping.

As far as I'm concerned, all other line, leader and tippet manufacturers can disappear, and I would be fine if RIO was still around.

Yup, my wonderful Vizsla (dog) got his grubby little muzzle on the tip section of my legend ultra 3wt. Just do what they say, it's pretty much no questions asked. They even have a way to buy a UPS shipping lable from their website. I was worried that since mine was a former model (3pc vs the current 4 pc.) they wouldn't have a new section for me, but they came up with one.

I carry a dry fly box (C&F) a wet/nymph box, and a streamer wallet. The wallets are great for large flies that won't get lost in the fleece, and tend to hold a lot of water, so putting them in a box would be a bad idea anyway. These are very light weight. Within these I carry way more then I ever use/need in any given trip. Here's the thing, I stock up on the go-to flies, of which I have around 5-10, and only have a couple of the what-if flies. Keep your real stock in the car, if you get in a bind, take the 5 minute walk, and restock the box. Here's what my real minimalist friend uses: http://www.flytedeck.com/ It's basically a flybox on a chestpack with a pouch, and some zingers and bottle holders. He uses the box and a wallet for streamers. You won't know it's there. I'm not ready to give up my vest yet, but I think this, in conjunciton with wader pockets would actually suit all my needs.

I like your idea zach. I hate adding weight, but soft weight makes it easier. I tried to underweight a San Juan once, but it took a long time to cover the lead with thread...for a fly that probably lasted 3 fish...fish tend to tear them up fast. Good idea Kayser, I have had TOO MANY fish break off fishing on the swing. Cracklebacks and softhackles are the worst...nothing, nothing, nothing, huge quick jerk, nothing........

Woolybugger or Mohair leech - Should be pretty heavily wheighted, to get it down near the bottom. Usually fished as a streamer, cast across a little downstream, allow the current to swing it, strip a few inches of line once in a while to give it action. Can also be fished dead drifed like a nymph with a bigger float indicator. San Juan worm - usually need to add shot or other weight to the line. Usually fished dead drifted with an indicator. Cast up and across let drift by you and down. Cracklebacks - these are a hybrid wet/dry usually. Most luck as a wet. You can cast up and across and let float to you, when it's a bit down from you, pull it under the surface film and fish it like a wet fly - let the current take it and swing it. I usually just skip the dry part and fish it wet Nymphs - usually dead drifted under an indicator. Usually need to be pretty close to the bottom, so if they're not weighted, add some, and cast a good bit up from where you want it to end up, so it has time to sink. Zebras usually go unweighted and fished dead drifted.

flyfishmaster: So your buckskin is just an unwheighted white thread body (thin?, thick?, tapered?) segmented with a small black dubbing head? I'm intrigued. Do you fish this like a wet fly or nymph? If you have pictures please post. trouthunter: Be advised that if you are new to the upper current (outside the park) that you may have trouble finding those big fish...or any at all. It's a different game than in the park. It's very cool, and my favorite place to fish, but you may end up skunked your first few times out. Bring some of those mohairs with you, they'll usually bring a few fish on a tough day on the current. Or hook up with somebody that knows the area. Or get a guide. See www.tightline.biz for that. I've never used him, but check out the pictures at least...I don't catch those kind of fish.

Wouldn't bet the farm on having any big guys left in the water after a derby. They tend to let a few huge fish go for the derby, and then an ungodly ton of normal (or smaller than normal) stockers. Still, most derby guys won't focus on riffles or difficult to fish areas, so there will still be some fun fish to catch.

Mohair Leech, size 10 olive. Pretty easy to tie, usually the only fly you really need, but I'm not a one fly kind of guy - Two materials maribout and leech yarn, plus lead wire. It takes time to get used to tying with maribou, but try wetting it a little, and you'll get the hang of it. San Juans are a good idea - one material, so also a cheap fly. Tie alot, they fall apart easily. Crackle backs are a great way to get into dry fly tying, but you need some more expensive hackle, which when I was 15 was just not in the cards - 2 or 3 materials, depending on whether you buy into the "it needs a back rib" idea. Scuds are pretty easy and fun to tie, but I personally don't ever catch fish with them - usually 3 materials, and lead. Try the zebra midges, they're just black thread, a bead head and a wire rib. Some guys (aka brownieman) swear by them. If you need advice on how to fish these flies, ask around here. I wish I had this type of help when I was 15 and learning...instead I just got skunked an awful lot.

Any time I'm looking into new gear, I look here first. The only problem is I have to ask the question, and wait for replies. I usually look for threads that may or may not have lead to the discussion of the particular thing I'm looking for. I think we need a real gear review section, not in the forum format, but sorted by category, brand, and specific model. That way we could all browse the list before we start posts in the forums. With the number of folks, including guides we have posting here, we could be THE place for reliable gear reviews on the web. There is a big hole in the internet for up-to-date fly gear review, flyfishermanforums is about the best, but it has almost no reviews. We could set up that way, but I think with the current member list, we could seriously populate some categories.

I think this is a good idea. I'm not sure it will ever go over but a good idea none the less. In my opinion you need to do the following to make it work: 1.) Limit it to a stream area. This takes the "what kind of tackle is that guy using" question away. I'm pretty sure fly only rules are the only ones that work here - even if you have a hard plastic zone, does that garuntee no treble hooks? If you're in a fly only area with a C&R permit, you won't have to be questioned. I hate to limit it like that but to be clear, we could not allow bait and soft plastic fisherman to be part of this permit. Sorry if that ruffles your feathers. 2.) Use the color coding as discussed earlier. 3.) Educate, educate, educate. Signs with good C&R practice, reminders on the tag itself, signs at the lodges and parking lots. 4.) Sell some frickin barbless flies at the lodges. 5.) hit a reasonable price point. Here's my solution to the problem of having an overly expensive permit. Have the initial permit be a bit pricy, but have reasonable renewal rates for future years. That way you could get the money you need for the program, but the fisherman feel that they're getting a good deal in the long run. Just a thought. Seriously, I think most true C&R guys get the idea and don't do anything beligerent to hurt fish. To be honest, my worst hook-ups are with tiny dry fly hooks that I have forgotten to pinch a barb back on. Those little things make you work at P.S. Consider yourselves lucky at Benett...at montauk coffee is $1.25...and it sucks.

No problem, you don't know until you ask. To answer, there is no upstream of the park. The park contains the origin of the current river. There is a creek called pigeon creek upstream, probably a smallmouth/goggle eye type of stream, but this doesn't account for much of the overall water to the current river.

Ha! good one. You'll be bumpin glo bugs with plenty of "fly fisherman" up there. How many people? All of 'em. I would get familiar with the upper current outside of the park.

I wouldn't buy a plastic reel for half that price. Go with one of the Ross worldwides. The 3/4 oz. weight difference is an exaggeration between the flystart ant the rhythm. It's closer to 1.5 oz. depending on which size you get. Also, the rhythm has a smoother drag, but that's not of utmost importance. It's probably the best drag, lightest and best bult reel for the price. I would be careful with any cast aluminum reel. I have an old SA concept 2 that got bent a little and was pretty tough to get back into usable shape. I don't perscribe to the "use only for holding line" theory. I play all fish off the reel, and have been suprised when even smaller fish get a burst of energy right when I try to grab them with my left hand...this would have broken the tippet had I been trying to pinch the line with one hand rather than lett the reel do it's job.

I'll be there just on the 18th. I'll probably be hitting the stream pretty hard all day, so I'm not sure I'll be ablet to stop by the campground. And oh boy, kids free fishing day...get ready for lots of tiny fish...I think I may end up spending more time around Baptist Camp. If you see a group of three flyrodders all incesantly making fun of eachother, one of them might be me. Mike

vanven, You wouln't be saving much time from KC to hit either of those places rather than Montauk/upper current or closer yet, the upper Meremac.

Do any good?

Al, I had an interesting conversation about Southeast MO smallmouth yesterday. I was asking a coworker from Cape area (outlying) about good streams, he was mentioning some and then said, "you really need to know my father in law, he has all the secret spots...'turn down the third gravel road after the mailbox...go six miles...'" Then he went on to say that this is because "my father in law is good friends with a well known fisherman named Al Agnew...ever heard of him?" Small world...

Hmmm...I've never seen anybody have a whole lot of luck down there. The If you use mini jigs (usually white) and glo-balls with a biggish indicator you should have a chance. Try the maribous though, could work well, also rooster tails - just might have some trouble finding good spots. Don't let it discourage you, I think that with glow-balls and mini-jigs you'll stand a good chance. I hear the peach/pink/yellow glo-balls with the jig head are good down there (probably find some at the lodge).

Stupid potheads. It's rare, but sometimes you get the partier morons...but usually it's just us early to bed - early to rise crazies. There's quite a bit of stream up from the spillway. I wouldn't start there though. I actually avoid the spillway/dam area altogether. Too wide and flat. The upper stram is more swift current with a variety of riffles, pools, undercuts, pockest, ect. It's all "fly only" area, so that means only artificial, 1-hook, no plastic. I like to use the parking lot up by the catch and release area (pass up all of the slow deep holes, drive until the do not enter sign - you'll park by the main hatchery building or the naturalists office). Walk down the road, over the bridge; take first right (where the road actually splits) and you'll see the stream up ahead. My favorite spots are from this point up to the spring, there are 3 or 4 easy access points if you follow the road that runs along the stream. Get in anywhere and start exploring, all is very wadeable. You'll feel like you're out in the woods, not real parking lots or traffic roads - trees on both sides, very pretty, tranquil when the crowds are down. Keep your eyes open in this stretch, you'll end up passing up lot's of trout if you just wade from spot to spot...if you think there's no fish in any given section, you're probably wrong, give it a try anyway. alternately, take the spring road (accross from the lodge) and park at either of the lots. The last one will be the spring.

Pretty far before you get to smallmouth water...at least you won't be wading into any good smallmouth water from Montauk. I HEAR that Ashley creek can hold smallies, but that's a couple miles down from baptist camp access, without any easy access as far as I know. It's a short(ish) drive to the akers ferry area. Then you may have better luck fishing from a canoe. I'd stick with the trout directly outside of the park (around the Tan Vat and Baptist Camp accesses - very wadeable, no bait, not soft plastic, basically the rules of the fly only water at Montauk, only you can keep just 1 fish 18"+.

Any Luck???