westbranchfly

Anytime! Sorry to hear of the theft of your rod. I'm lucky to have a St. Croix 11' 5wt. switch and a 12'6" Cortland CL 7/8wt. I recently had a Versitex 11' 8/9 switch passed on to me, just have to get off my butt and get a head and reel for it. I've never fished down that way, but have heard many good things about it.

Jack, the guys from Olympic peninsula Skagit tactics are currently working on something like that. Ed ward has been fooling around with converting single handers for tight stuff on narrow water.

Dylan, I'd be looking at a bass pro or cabelas rod to get started. There's no sense in piling a bunch of money into something you're still not sure about. If you want money well spent, get a Rio Skagit head and tips to start. About 150 bucks. Like Matt said, you'll need a bigger reel, but it doesn't matter how good the drag is, we're not getting into 20# fish every day. You'll need running line behind the head, 30 or 40# Berkeley big game does well, and it's cheap. You just have to decide if you want a switch rod or a longer two hander. Both have their place. If it was me, I'd be looking for a 6 or 7 wt. 11' switch to get started.

Nighthawk, that sounds like a nice rig. I'm envious, I'd love to build my own two hander.

You welcome!

Alright, here we go again with another ramble. With Skagit casting, remember this. The masters have taught us that the head and tip should hold aratio of 2-1/2 to 3 times the rods length. This length includes the tip. Most of the line manufacturers have already taken this into account. Typically, heads labeled as shorts are intended for switch rods, and everything else is determined by the magical rod length of 13' and below or 13' and longer. When it comes to grain weights, these are determined by the grain window of the rod. For example, we'll use my 5wt. switch. St. Croix tells me the window for that rod is 280-350 grains. This weight is for the Skagit head ONLY. To go further with this- if use a 280 gr. head, the rod will want to load the tip only. You'd better be good to cast on the light side. On the other hand, if I go heavier, the rod will load further into the blank. This will cause me to slow down my casting stroke. New casters can learn the rod load and casting stroke a bit better with a heavier head. Now, the tips don't count towards grain weight. Some rod builders will give you the maximum sinking tip weight. A 5wt. switch is not going to pull 10' of T-14 and an intruder out of the water, but 10' of T8 will not be a problem, just slow down. Another thing, everyone thinks these rods will all do 100' casts. Not so. One gem that Ed Ward passed on - rods, at least two handers, will typically cast 8 times their length. This depends on the casters skill ultimately. Theoretically, my 12-1/2' rod should be able to do 100'. Good luck getting that, most days I'm Lucky to get 80'.

Well Matt......., here's what I know about MOW tips. Wait a minute, before I get sidetracked, I didn't realize that head you had on was a scandi. That explains why it casts differently. If your gonna run that 33' scandi top-level use a poly leader on the end. Scandinavian heads were designed for touch and go anchoring, not sustained water borne anchors like a Skagit head. They don't have the back bone for long heavy tips and flies. Moving right along. If you want a mow tip, you're gonna have to get a Skagit head. Here's my take, and this is open for debate. I run a few different tips, T8, T-14,and a 7.5x2.5 T11. The T11 gets used on low flows. It has the short sink tip that works well on low moving water. The T8 gets used on 1000-3000cfs. It's10-11' long, and gets the flies close to the bottom, with the occasional snag. The T-14 gets used to dredge on high flow days, say 4000+ cfs. I'll use anywhere from 10-12', depending upon how often the fly is hanging up. All of that being said, depending on your flows and river bottom, and whether you're using weight in the fly, a 5x5 would probably get you through most of your runs and buckets. In closing, remember this, the fish will tell you what they want. Sorry for rambling on.

Trapshot, you're welcome to meet me at taney and try casting my switch and spey rods. One warning though, it's addictive as anything. I have my rods rigged with Skagit heads, so they are very easy to cast. The point being, you can try my stuff before you spend a bunch of money.

That 8 will do just fine. If you're fishing high water, you'll probably want to check out a Skagit head and some sink tips. That 8wt. has enough butt to pull a 10'-12' piece of t-14 and big streamer out of the water. Your Scandi head should do a wonderful job with long distance delicate presentations. Think dry flies and skaters. Good old switch line does well in its own right. If you want something that will pickup a heavy indicator rig, and mail it 50-60', while still giving great mending ability- go for it. Welcome to the club! You'll never look at these rivers the same anymore. Limited backcast room and high water are no longer a problem for you. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

Get a 9' 5wt. Between that and your 8, you can cover 95% of your fishing. Manufacturer is doesn't matter in my opinion, just check their warranty. A rod is only as good as the person fishing it.

I just wanted to pass along a little update. Swinging sculpin patterns has proven, at least to me, to be a productive method. I'll grant you that it's not producing the large numbers of fish that are normally afforded to midge and scud fisherman, but it's working on challenging conditions. I've also found that modified steelhead patterns, tied on either shanks with a stinger hook, or tube flies have been effective on high water. I started fishing yesterday morning ( 4 units, 9800 cfs on the river ) with a T-14 sinking tip, and a purple darter Clouser pattern, tied on a tube. Managed to take a few fish on the swing. The fish generally hit about half way through the swing. I'm still learning about swinging, but it's been a fun experience. I'm starting with the 27' head, 10-ish feet of sink tip, plus leader out of the tip top, make the swing. I keep adding 2-3 feet to each swing until I'm out to 70-80 feet. So far, so good. I had a question for everyone that has been following this thread. Would there be any interest in getting together, say after the first of the year, and having a small spey clave, of sorts? I'll round up a few of the guys that I know have two handers, and you come by and see and try casting a skagit rig? I'm no casting instructor by any means, let me say that. There seems to be some interest, and I thought maybe if you wanted, you could try casting and fishing my rods. It will give you the chance to see and use it, before having to spend the money on an expensive experiment. Maybe you could see the benefits I've been enjoying this fall, and who knows, maybe you'll be inspired to add another tool to the toolbox some day. Be safe out there.

@ nighthawk- could you share the particulars about your rod, and the water?

Like I said yesterday, two handers are not the end all. But, they are a fantastic tool for the tool box. You had the chance to see water get covered that, due to high water, otherwise couldn't be fished with a single hander. I was glad to spend the time with you. I'm still learning the intricacies of Skagit casting, but I'm more than willing to pass on what I know. Who knows, maybe someday there will be enough interest and we could hold a spey clave on Taneycomo.

@strangecreek it's very possible. I'm terrible at remembering names, but I can usually remember a face. Lately I cain't remember half of the folks I've spoken with about two handers because there have been a bunch of questions in the parking lot. One thing is for sure, that rod is definitely a conversation starter. What's been amazing to me is the amount of folks that tell me," I've thought about a spey or switch rod." After talking with them, most folks don't realize that you can get two handers as light as a 5wt. I use a 5wt switch rod, but a 13' 5wt. two hand? That's just cool. Especially knowing that you can rig it for nymphing or swinging streamers. A guy that I know claims the two hand fascination is forthcoming for Taney. I'm sure he is right. I just hope the educational means is in place to help new casters along.

If you can roll cast a single hand rod, you can cast a two hand rod. All it is, is overgrown roll casting with a change of direction. As far as back cast room, all I need is enough to get a d loop, and that won't be much. My Skagit head on the 12-1/2 footer is 27' long. That's all i need out of the tip top. Granted there may be 10-12' of T material plus a short leader,but, in this case that is irrelevant. My set up is basically an overgrown weight forward line. I don't have to try to manage a huge amount of line like I would with a traditional long belly spey line. Skagit and Scandinavian heads are shooting head systems essentially. I run 40 pound Berkeley mono as my running line. Cheap and simple, plus it shoots like it's been shot out of a cannon.

I'm glad for everyone's responses. I wouldn't go so far as saying pioneer, more like a guy thats just standing in the water waving a stick. The other thing I intend to fool around with is Scandinavian heads on my rods. They're tapered differently than a Skagit, anchor differently, and have ability to make a delicate presentation at distance. Ie - midges and scud rigs on a switch rod. I started with the Skagit rigs, namely because of the ease of learning to cast. It has since turned into an obsession. Swinging large flies, heavy sinktips, and not expecting large numbers of fish. It's been a ton of fun so far. And casting with two hands is a very engaging thing.

Let me preface my reply by saying this, I'm on foot. I dont own a boat, have access to a boat, or even have one on the horizon. I'm like everyone else in the fact that I have a limited amount of time to be on the river. That being said, I like to be able to fish when the dam is running water. The big advantage, for me, is the versatility the two handers offer. I use a Skagit set up on both the 12-6 and switchrod. Basically, this set up allows me to cast a larger streamer, and, in the event of higher flows, to cast a very heavy sinktip. Let's say the river has 4000 cfs on it. Most of the guys would have come off the water, or retreated to one of the outlets. The beauty of two hand casting Plus the rod length allows me to tuck up along the bank, in a safe wading position, and still swing a fly from 30-90 feet away. The other big advantage for me is the amount of energy involved. Two hand casting doesn't take near the effort that a single hander does, in my opinion. I have a shoulder that doesn't do well trying to double haul a long line. The other thing is this. By simply changing the head, I can go from tossing 3"+ streamers to nymphing, especially with the switch rod. I don't know if all of that random nonsense makes any sense, but that's how I see it.

I've been fishing the river this fall with my two hand rods ( switch and 12'6" spey), and was curious if anybody else is doing the same. I've heard that there are a few others, just haven't run into them yet.

My name is Nathan, and I moved to Hollister from central Pennsylvania a little over a year ago. I used to spend most of my time fly fishing central Pa's limestoners and freestones, along with smallmouth fishing on the Susquehanna River. I must say, everyone I've met here so far has been friendly and helpful. Thanks for your time. Good fishing.