Chief Grey Bear

Very nice pic!! Full of peace and serenity.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=railroad+anchors&gs_sm=1&gs_upl=1391l6266l0l9407l15l12l0l3l3l1l235l1767l0.9.2l14l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=960&bih=422&wrapid=tlif133016895875010&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=hMRIT5KkG8P4ggf-gviUDg Actually they are to keep the rail from creeping due to tonnage, braking, severe heat and cold.

Just one more. How does this guy know a fish had never been taken from this stream???

I guess if it works on lakes it won't work on streams??? Well, I'll tell ya. You boys do what ever it is you want. I am taking a que from F&F and dropping out. You just can't reason with the unreasonable. Have a ball with your fantasy state wide C&R.

I didn't catch your set of limitations in the orginal request. Kinda sucks I found one.

I am going to try and explain the workings of a slot limit one more time. A slot limit has nothing to do with thinning out fish. It has to do with harvesting some of the smaller fish, those below the protected slot, that consume the most forage. By havesting some of the smaller fish, you are allowing for more forage to be consumed by those fish in the protected slot to increase their growth rates. And the slot also protect those fish that we enjoy catching the most, the 15 inch +. And that by almeans does not force anyone to keep fish everytime they fish. Even with the slot, I most likely wouldn't keep fish more than 3 or 4 times a year. A slot is the most viable solution that I think we have to increase the numbers of the desirable fish we all crave so much. And still be fair to the other users of the resource.

Then why do the majority of not all MDC lakes have a slot limit???

Other than the nasty gig wounds, around 50% or so of your bass were 15 inches or more. That is one good point to a very sad story.

I am sure this is how the MDC feels all the time. And is it really dissing or constructive criticism of an ogranization that the members find no fault in? And on a side note, I have never said anything about the representation of the MSA in SWMO. Good point by the way about the gigging and the tags. Sounds very plausable.

Best common sense post so far. Its like you read my mind. I was at the Delaware access last month and no sign was present. Just for info. Sounds logical. Only difference is Drew is not advocating the total shutdown of smallmouth catch and keep. I am not saying and have never said he is not passionate about them.

I get about 50 or so days in. That is about all I can get with 2 kids and a job. Lucky you. If I could get both days of the weekend, I'd be right with you. I was being liberal with 12 for him. Summer is his busy time, and time off for him is a premium! It would be like me pushing for reg on how many times you can ride the roller coaster at Six Flags because I don't like long lines, but only go once a year.

Just don't think it is right for someone that fishes very little to restrict those that fish far more. If you understood the workings of the slot, which is to help you catch bigger fish on your few trips per year, which I think is what you are wanting, you wouldn't be asking rediculous questions. I would like to hear from you why you think the rivers were just chocked full of super huge smallmouth just waiting for someone to catch them?? And don't forget, there were more natural predators then as oposed to now. But at any rate, noone can say with anything other than an assumption that fishing was any better then than now. Thanks Tim. Its not something I apparently do very often.

Yes, lets be realistic....you fish maybe 12 times a year for smallmouth. MAYBE on a good year. So maybe we shouldn't pretend we have even an adequate grasp of the concept. Very familiar with the White Pages Dan. That is the very study that I got the info from. I won't go as far as saying you guy's never posted any signs down this way but I can say with all honesty, I have never in all my years seen one. Maybe they became collectors items and are hanging in someone's fishing room. And that just give me a thought. Why not run some by local bait shops when you are out puting these up and ask if you can hang one in their shop. I'd say near the cash register. You know you were talking about him and probably me too. And for the record, again, I am in total support of the MSA mission. I just don't see the mission being followed. As it is written. And that is not necessarily a slam against the MSA.

That is certainly your right. But, if you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem. Total C&R is not a solution or even a reality. And I am glad you brought up growth rates Dan. Years of studies have show there is only a 1/2 inch difference in smallmouth bass from age 1 through age 10 between the SMA's and non-SMA's. Sure a 1/2 inch is a 1/2 inch but are we really getting our return on investment. (not that we have really invested any money per sa, just a way to word my point/question.)

Oh now Al you're starting to nitpik a little. Of the three black bass native to my area, the spot is a distant 3 in population. I don't really see a that this would be a problem. And of course in the water sheds that have a current relaxed spot regulation, it would not effect them. Keep more of the smaller bass in check provides increase forage for those in the protected portion and top end of the slot. Bass in the, say, 7 to 12 or 13 inches have ferocious appetites. I think it is vital and a key componet to the success of the slot program to harvest the smaller fish. That is why I have it at 4. I would actually rather have at it at 5 under + 1 over. But I know that would never go over on here so I just put it at four as my third choice. My second choice would be 4 under + 1 over but again, I don't think you guy's would go for it and I am trying to be fair to all and maximize both the use of and the enjoyment from the resource for all. So here would be my choices in order. 1. 5 under + 1 over 2. 4 under + 1 over 3. 4 total with only 1 over. Now before you shreek at my number 1 choice think for a minute. If the survey states that 70% would approve tighter regs than most likely those 70% will not harvest a fish over the high end of the slot but hopefully will on the bottom end. It doesn't mean everyone will still be taking 6 fish home every time. And of course I would highly doubt that they would harvest more than maybe 25% of there times on the water. I really think that number would be lower. But to make the slot work as designed we would all need to participate.

Ya know, I wouldn't be opposed to applying this to all Black bass. In fact I would like it even more. And I think you should keep your current Spotted bass special reg in your Meramec and Gascon systems, as long as we are not seeing a reduction in LM due to mis-identification. I think you and MJ are right. We need to combine all three species in the slot so that the total coming out at any one time can not exceed 5 fish in any combination. So how does this look: Black Bass on unimpounded waters, All Black Bass between 13-18 inches must be released immediately unharmed. Only 4 Black Bass less than 13 inches and only 1 over 18 inches may be in possession. Except: On unimpounded waters west of Hwy 65 and south of Interstate 44 all Black Bass between 12-15 inches must be released immediately unharmed. Only 4 Black Bass less than 12inches and 1 over 15 inches may be in possession. Between Nov.1 and May 31 no black bass may be in possession while on unimpounded waters.

Well I have spent quite a bit of time this evening running through most of threads we had back then talking smallmouth. HOLY COW, do we have pages and pages and pages of that. At any rate I think it went something like this; Smallmouth Bass on unimpounded waters, All smallmouth between 13-18 inches must be released immediately unharmed. Only 4 smallmouth less than 13 inches and only 1 over 18 inches may be in possession. Except: On unimpounded waters west of Hwy 65 and south of Interstate 44 all smallmouth between 12-15 inches must be released immediately unharmed. Only 4 smallmouth less than 12inches and 1 over 15 inches may be in possession. Between Nov.1 and May 31 no black bass may be in possession while on unimpounded waters.

Sorry Cricket, I went back and re-read your post. I was thinking they were down there poaching. But you talking over a period of time.

Actually, my friend, I seem to remember at the end of our last "discussion", Al and I hammered out a set of regs that I think we all agreed upon. I think we ended up with only two set that covered the whole state. Give me a little time to dig them up.

Have you called Operation Game Thief??

Yeah and a lot more of them. City, county, and patrol. But set your cruise next time you are running down the interstate on the speed limit and count how many cars pass you. Hell, I always set mine of 5 over and still get passed like I am running 5 under. I tried that exact logic here about year or two ago. Didn't work then either.

Do you believe people may skip smaller streams is because they don't think they hold quality fish and don't appear to have any real fishable water???? I was bridge hopping one time with a friend of mine and we stopped at one place and was fishing at bridge. A few minutes later, the landowner showed up and asked what we were doing. We had a very pleasant conversation with him and he stated he had no idea there were any fish in there. He watched for as we spoke and reeled in couple. He bid us good day and drove off. You spot on about pressure on smaller creeks. And that is just fine with me. I just wish ours had brownies like yours over there!! That would really be sweet!! Smalliebigs has sent me some pics of brownies that he has caught out of those smaller creeks and they just make me even more jealous!!!

Let me make sure I am following you now. Crawdads hibernate and minnows migrate. Thus the smallmouth are just following the minnows. So it should be that the crappie, LM and Spotted bass, goggle eye, catfish, gar and a number of other speices of fish that inhabit the creeks and rivers that feed on minnows should also be following the minnow migration in what would rival wildebeest crossing the Serengeti plains of Africa. Not sure it is a matter of being simple about the way you put things but, maybe one of displaying the knowledge you should have aquired during your 300 days of fishing and guiding for the last 30 years.

Was that another slam against the MDC?

I certainly hope they are not planning on using info from 2 or 3 of the most heavily fished streams to set the standard for the whole state?????