Chief Grey Bear

Just a bump. Looks at first post for updated info.

In the case of Hickory and Capps, which are the two streams in the spot light in this conversation, nothing could be further from the truth. In the case of Capp's it was set up as a park for families to enjoy by the family that owned the land and I am not sure if they began stocking the trout on a small basis or if they and the MDC began a partnership on the stocking. As for Hickory, that started soley because the city of Neosho had the brainstorm to create another Roaring River and bring in additional revenue for the city. Niether had anything to do with habitat changes. Now we agree.

OTF, if you believe that only 9 trout were left in the whole stream, there is no way we are going to have any semblance of an intelligent conversation.

No.

Yeah. We have two recievers running 4 TV's in the same house. We run 4 different channels at the same time all the time.

My dad lives in Carthage and has a place on T-Rock. He is able to that with DISH. I can't speak for Direct.

Yeah lets see the spider. I haven't seen that new crickhopper. But that older one, I have caught a ton of fish on that color in the late fall. It seems to match the color of a true grasshopper at this time of year. I used a green with orange belly hopper in the summer. Reble makes a few kid friendly, novelty items. But they produce results too. And that has a three fold effect. They sell. They catch fish. They introduce young kids to the sport and keeps them occupied by making it fun.

Sorry to hear that fellas! We will see you in the spring. Looks like the weather is going to perfect. Sunny with highs in the low 80's. I just hope the fishing is as hot as it was last saturday. Even if is is just half as good, it will be a great day!

I have yet to catch one of those toothy critters. I always tell myself I am going too but, then end up focusing on the trout!

That is pretty good right there!

Well, that ain't exactly true either. Hickory used to have a good population of brownies. Very few are left in the stock zone. That being the stretch of water where trout are stocked. But I can take you similar waters in the area that you can catch brownies until your arms fall off. I have fished Shoal within a mile of where it comes out of the ground and caught numerous brownies and even a lot of largemouth. So Andy may not be able to prove it but, anytime you would like to stop by down here, I would more than happy too.

Do you even understand what you post? You claim you don't want to "re-create" white ribbon management, yet you want to add C&R to white ribbon steams. Is that not changing a white ribbon section to blue ribbon status???? That has been the whole fricking discussion here. You and OTF want to change white ribbon fishing to blue ribbon style status and you think everyone should just be all hunky dorey with it. Why? So you may stand a better chance at adding to your daily catch of stocked trout? TF1985, I'll make you the same proposal that I did OTF. If you want to catch some true self sustaining wild trout, I will take you to a spot or two that I know of. But I just can't get behind this agenda of turning white ribbon water into blue ribbon when it is all artifical. Now that does not mean I don't like fishing white ribbon water. I do. In the winter I don't mind hitting those waters every now and then. It can be fun. I just don't get all bent out of shape when I don't catch a butt load. I just consider it a part of the challange. And eric, any time you want to come down here and fish trout stocked waters(Hickory and Capps) and other waters in the same area and campare catch rates of native species I will buy your gas to get here. I guarantee you will be surprised by the results.

As well I have made my point that White Ribbon is not managed for C&R. It is managed primarily for those that desire to keep the trout they may happen to catch. I don't know why that is problem when another load of trout will be delivered in a few weeks. There is not one gallon of water in this state that has trout that were not stocked by some entity whether government or private at some point in time in history. Now I have nothing against trout fishing. I love the fact that I can find wild populations of self sustaining trout in remote waters. And I am all about their protection. So much so that I will not annouce the location when I discover them. But I would take someone like yourself to a area of these rare populations only because I know you are a good steward of the wild, self sutaining populations in this state. But when it comes to stocked trout, I don't get too shook up. Why? More are coming. I just don't see the reason to get all bent out of shape. I guess when I look at your argument, I see you complaining that you can't catch trout in the white ribbon section and you want to change is so you can. And that just ain't right in my mind. So we differ. No big deal. Nothing personal. We just don't agree and we say our peace. Or is it piece.

Please, be has harsh and you want. It brings out your character. You did mention blue over white cause you could catch more fish correct???? They are mangaged differenlty to achieve differnt results. And they have accomplished the desired results for both.

Hey that is a really nice fish! I have a couple of those Bumble Bugs myself. I need to fish them more than I do. And now is the time of year to be tossing one on creek. Is the one in the second picture a newer or older version? The ones that I have are the same style as the one in the first pic. I use a very slow retrieve where it has a slow wobble on the surface. But I have also fished it just under the surface with a medium retrieve.

What you are saying you can't can't catch fish in a put and take environment and you are now thowing a hissy fit and want all waters managed so you can catch your fish. Well, it ain't all about you. There are other users of the resource and you are just goning to have to learn to share.

Then keep repeating the last sentence of my post until you do.

Here is what it boils down to in a nutshell. If you don't like the white Ribbon sections and the way they are managed, wait two weeks after a stocking before fishing it. Now you have your blue ribbon type fishing. Good luck and lets see how good you really are.

Looks like little brother out did big brother! Way to go Jack! When are you gonna show me how you catch big fish like that? Who is that guy in the bottom pics? I don't think I have seen him before?? OH, is that you??? Nice fish! Hope we find some of those Saturday!!

Did you ever stop to think of how much that person spent with other merchants to catch those four fish? I doubt he was beamed down from the Enterprise. There was gas, license, corn, power bait, snacks, drinks, rods, line, hooks, sinkers, and what ever you think you might need. The last I knew, I thought it cost $1 per trout from the hatch to the release. He certainly spent more than that to get four trout. Plus the MDC recouped some monies on the taxes on the goods he purchased to get a little fish dinner. And the local merchants thank him for contibuting to the economy. OTF, where did you get the crazy idea that trout are stocked as a protein supplement???? I have heard some crazy stuff, like when Taxi said if you know who got elected there would be no fishing in 2 years, but wow, that is a doozie right there. The MDC in not here to provide protein. They are here to provide fishing and hunting as well as other outdoor activities and see that they continue without depletion of the resource. And in the case of trout, it is nothing more than the sport of trout fishing and attacting new users to the outdoors. So yes we have to put up with some amusment park type areas. If we didn't, we would be loosing even more kids to the video game.

Hey winter time is the only time I fish it myself. I don't mess with it in the warm months. Too much floating to do!!!! I wouldn't call this a debate so much as I would a conversation. And I would love to continue it in person on the banks of Capps. But I would have to stop short of calling it a "conservation" dialog. And you know me, I am always up for testing the tresspassing law! You're a lawyer right?????

I forgot to add that I would venture to say that those tagged trout were most likely stocked in 2008. But at any rate, it is no secret that the majority of trout stocked don't last long.

A 2009 population survey confirmed previous tagging study information which indicated that rainbow trout are rapidly removed by anglers between stockings as only 9 rainbow trout were captured. A few rainbow, however, likely survive as four of these fish were 15-17"; larger than the normal stocking size. There is the entire quote. And in the very first sentence it states that 9 trout from the 2009 population survey where they surved previously stocked tagged trout, were captured. It can be any clearer than that. It also states, which both of you left out like a FOX News story, that at least 4 of them had a really good growth rates. But still, when were they stocked in comparison to when the survey took place? Was the whole creek shocked? From the Mill dam to the confluence with Shoal? There are trout in there year round. And they get very smart, very quickly. I will talk to the biologist that covers Capp's and see what the shocking surveys says. It may be a few days though. How many browns have you caught out of Capp's? They are there and there are some monsters too. I haven't caught one(a monster brown) but earlier this year when I was at the biologists office we were talking about Capps and he told me of some of the fish in there and it would make you dribble like a baby! But at any rate, if you believe there were only 9 trout in the whole creek, then by all means write your letter. And please point that out to them. I would be really interested in the response. But just know what White Ribbon management consist of and that is what it is managed for. But the next time you make a trip to Capps, let me know. I'd love to meet you there.

Not every trout stocked is tagged. The theory that only 9 trout were found is completly false. Only 9 tagged trout were found. The question is how many were tagged? How long after the release of the tagged trout was the next survey? How many may have been harvested by natural predation? How many may have succumb to stress? There are many questions to be answered before the finger gets cast at the very people that the park is managed for. I have caught there year round and the creek only gets 5 stockings per year. If I remember correctly, it only gets about 3,000 trout per year or about 600 per stocking. Capp's is what it is. It is not being mismanaged, it is just not being managed the way you would like it to be. If you want Blue Ribbon type fishing, than I would suggest you go to a Blue Ribbon stream. I wouldn't be totally opposed to a split on the creek. But I wouldn't be excited for it either. But I don't think you will find the fishing any easier. Blue or Red Ribbon will mean very little to no stockings in that area. You will just have to hope some will come down from the Mill.

You'er close OB. It is because of the corprate farms that the family farms are struggling at best. They own millions of acres and control pricing at every aspect. They force the family farm to sell out. That and most family farms are or have seen their last generation. Most kids are finding life in the city and the money that can be made there much easier. Those kids must be so proud to take their kids out to the county and show them where they grew up in what is now a housing district. I can take you all around and see the the 20 or 30 or more acres of houses where I used to hunt. And that is one of the main pushes behind seeds that produce more per acre. They stopped making land years ago.