brownieman

G B...you really think I hold faith in all I read in a blog...whatever...has nothing to do wiith hunting...has to so with water quality so I'm told...lead...lead sinkers will be next...think about behind the dams, tons of em lost...2,3 ounces each, a little bigger than buckshot...plus they may be able to issue a few more tickets and generate some badly needed revenue..HA !...as you put it you really think I don't realize anyone could put up those posts?...cmon...but it they were present employees I bet they wouldn't put their name on it...you know why...must not you say you're hooked on reality...well then drive around the rural areas and take a real hard look...you'll never see it if you don't know where to look...I can show the things I see, can you? I'll answer for gf...it's not hard to tell what he wants to know. Where the hell does the money go, all of it...even a cpa stated with records, reports, if he ran his business like they did he would have no clients...must be nice to have to show no accountability ( or lumped in such a broad spectrum ) or even keep up to date annual reports ( not like they don't have the office help to do so )...most don't have that priveledge. We can break it down harder if you want...gotta feeling some are trying, lol

C W, Excellent...glad you released the smallies. Due to increased fishing pressure, poaching, otters, etc...nice smallies are getting hard to come by ( even in the sections of streams deemed trophy areas ) being such a slow growing species. I'll tell you a good one that I had a hard time swallowing. My dad told me many years ago he and a conservation agent were fishing the upper piney and caught 2 smallies in particular ( they had no tape or scales ) so they marked them with a pocket knife on a cross member on my dads old wooden canoe before they released them. I asked dad if the marks were still on the boat...long story short...one mark was just under 26" and the other was just under 28"...you figure the weight...amazed me, those must have been the days !!!

Sam, gf is exactly right...it's over crowded most of the time by cat fisherman with 13 ft. long rods...I would hate for a hanicapped person to interfere with their tight lining...it is open for all to fish off of and believe me all do, lol Most of the time it is...guessing here...10 to 12 feet above the water. IMO it's a handicapped dock in more ways than one, lol...you can hit the water with a cast but good luck landing a fish unless you rig up a net that will extend about 20 ft. or so. That's admirable of you to try to help out your friend...imo you would be better off thying to find a private or public lake that will accomodate him better. Where abouts are you and I will point you at something if I am aware of it or maybe someone else can tell you a good spot. Good luck...I'm sure he values your frienship and likewise.

Yes Al...great work ! IMO nothing more than a recipe in another "cookbook" Are these your figures or were they handed to you from someone within ? Just my opinion...but it seems to me you sir you are first in line to defend the MDC's actions and imo you know exactly why you do...all the rest just wonder why. ...and C G...imo you are hooked and being reeled in as we speak. The blog you refer to I assume "Take Back the MDC", you have the right just as I to believe what you will. IMO it's one of the only freedoms we enjoy that some entity, faction, whatever will never have control of my friend. There are quotes in there from MDC employee's, why do you think they are anonymous? Myself...I beleive what I have seen and experienced...the rest imo often times is a smoke screen, rumor, propoganda, etc. There are many things cloaked by secrecy and people often use these given facts and figures as a platform which they feel they need to to defend their opinions/beliefs. It is the most uesful tool available to them, so...you speak of rumors...I ask of you, are you speaking from experience, things you have witnessed or otherwise? I can take you on a road trip around the state and show you where my opinions derive from and will allow you the same priveledge...then we will discuss the matter, fair enouph? The Disabilities Act...Al, due to this that is where the bulk of the money has gone concerning your " statistics"...and you know as well as I why. Let me put it this way, it's there for all to enjoy...even the handicapped, impaired and mentally challenged...quite a nice feather to stick in ones hat, huh ? My intent is not meant to be invasive, abrasive or directed at any one group or individual...rather it is an effort to raise awareness...wade through the clutter so to speak. People need facts and figures to figure it all out. Most I have read on this thread just want to know one simple thing... where are their tax dollars really being spent and is the money being wisely used...imo the truth lies within and well protected. Propoganda is a prevalent force concerning most any topic where large chunks of money are concerned...from the highest to the lowest levels. IMO people just want to know the truth, plain and simple...it should not be hard to get the answers they are asking but it seems to me answers are hard to get...just makes me wonder, why ?

You mean were gonna have a real old fashion "Town Hall Meeting"?? lol.....bus? Gas is high...I'll pitch in...might need a pretty big bus...say Tan Tar A..or...open for suggestions, lol

GREAT read gf...hope others take a look... IMO...noted the comments from...well..anonymous empoyee's...that's good, lol. Does Al or anyone else know or have seen walleye, bass, any species besides trout that are raised to a catchable size?, if so, please tell me. Several yrs. back I can remember the effotts to re-estabish walleye to the St. Francis River of which they were native. IMO effotts like that are great if the fish stocked were good healthy fish...the suvival rate of 1 to 2 inch fish probably is slim. If the result of a program of this nature is successful that's great, if not, hopefully a good effort was made I for one give credit for good things done...but on the other hand if someone doesn't try to "See Through the Smoke Screen", just once in a while...well...we deserve what we get.

IMO, no matter how the law reads or is inerpreted...what troubles gf I believe is what bothers most. Even though the landowner may legally own the land under the water...the water itself is free flowing...the right to use this "free flowing water" is what is the question here, the gray area so to speak. There is not a fix to this problem that I can see...many disputes have to be settled in a courtroom due to this...and depending how influential you are within the "Good Ole Boy Network" within the county you reside...well...you know what I am saying. Quite a tangled web we have weaved

In the past ( when I was younger and able) I have walked endless miles in pursuit of trophy size trout...not so called lunkers ( 3 lbs and up ) I'm talkin 5 lbs. and up. If a trout less than 15, 16 inches is after my plug I generally try to keep from hooking the fish so as not to disturb the hole where I know the "Big Boy" is to avoid spooking the one I am after. Guess you could say ( not being your typical trout fisherman ) that I hunt big fish. Have walked by miles of good fishable water at daylight many mornings trying to get to a hole while it is undisturbed in an effort to hook the fish I know is there...used to keep a journal of when and where I spotted these fish and always shared that journal with a few select friends. I have had many a grudge match with a fish and have been defeated more than successful, lol. Have always felt I am in their environment therefore I am at a disadvantage...my only advantage is a better thought process...fish aren't noted for having high intellegence but the big ones haven't got big from being dumb. Many times I have been standing chest deep in water and a big fish follow my plug downstream right to my rod tip...I just freeze with my bait sitting on the waters surface under my rod tip until the fish finally moves back upstream to where he was...I don't move a bit till he has moved back upstream...if he detected me I saw him no more and my 3 mile walk to get to him was wasted. Fish have lateral lines to detect movement in the water...in some cases (especially in stiller water) they can feel you long before they can see you...not as bad in swift water cause the waves created by wading is taken downstream. Due to these two variables...sight and sensory perception...I always fish upstream...I feel I have to out smart the fish and it's tough when you are on his turf.

Right on gf...glad to see someone notices these things besides myself. It's there for all to see if they were to just for a lack of better words " Open Their Eyes" ...everyone seems to turn a blind eye these days. IMO...maybe, just maybe things would not be in the shape they are if people would just take a hard look... possibly a "reality check" would be in order. I don't have the answers and it's apparant to me...well...is there an answer? IMO if you do voice your opinion at a town meeting you hear...your input is much appreciated and will be taken under consideration...YEAH RIGHT...hence the word facade, lol

I'm no expert...but it appears to me most of them are born dead by the side of the road, lmao

CC, you are exactly right...one must blend with the colors that surround them and most fish will see you long before you see them. One thing works well for me due to one thing. Any species of fish while idle always faces upstream expending as little energy as possible to hold their position...if they are heading downstream they are either in pursuit of or escaping from something. Due to this I always fish upstream...approaching from directly behind them is the only way to sneak up on them undetected. I have actually crawled up gravel bars on my hands and knees ( the water being too deep to wade) if I know there is a large fish that I am in pursuit of...if you stand upright...well...that fish is outta there...might as well chunk rocks in the water, lol

I agree fully dfly but gf puts it in perspective well. I voted for the 1/8 cents tax myself and am glad we have it...but imo it has created a monster...a well fed monster. IMO greed and wastefulness has stepped in due to wealth and influential factions. We are indeed fortunate to have the outdoor opportuities we have in this state...we do have it good but there is always room for improvement and I am thankful the ,imo, greedy poiticians haven't got ahold of the money yet...to our knowkedge anyway, lol IMO these so called "Town Hall Meetings" are a facade to let the public feel our opinions matter...go to one and see if they address your personal concerns in a timely, efficient, logical manner. We learn from experience..." The School of Hard Knocks"...there is no better teacher. I try not to speak about things I am ignorant to ( ignorance being the lack of knowledge)...there is a big difference in ignorance and stupidity...and believe me I am ignorant about allot of things. Most comments on this thread are constructive...just regular joes wondering where are tax dollars are going...we as the taxpayer have a right to know... imo we should be able to be given a prompt answer when we ask where are hard earned tax dollars are being spent but answers it appears are hard to get...imo it's a shame. Most of us peons just want to see our tax dollars used wisely and there is nothing in my book wrong with that...just a bunch of peons wondering where the money goes.

JC....I can remember...time flys you know...it's been several yrs. back and if I remember right was up around LOZ. Don't know any of the particulars on this, just what I saw on the news and heard. Some landowners had willed their property upon their death to the dept. IMO there was probably a written agreement between the two, would think there would have to be legally. They had left it to the dept. under the impression it would be well taken care of and preserved. The donatees had kids, thank goodness imo...a few years passed and the dept. decided to do something (don't remember what, just what I saw on the news) other than what was in agreement with the donatees I assume or so said the family and the news. JMO but if family members would not have existed the dept. would have had their way concerning what was done with this land and the individuals who donated the land would have rolled over in their grave. IMO this is probably just once some public light was shed on matters like these. As I stated, this is just my opinion and I am only going on what info. was on the news...I know not the particulars.

CC, thanks for the nice words and thoughts you remind me of my father...he's knows all about the old motors...when I was younger I can always remember him having one in a 55 gallon drum tinkering with it...he is a perfectionist and 82 now and It's hard to see him lose that " edge" ya know. We have a 19 ' square stern canoe now which he built a small jack on...the motor you speak of is his favorite...bar none, speaks as highly as you of it. My grandfather was a judge in Larwence Co. in Mo. and ran a bait shop out of his basement. He tied flies, made jigs and poppers and patented 1 Mo. fishing plug. Fond memories from my childhood. " The Judges Bait Shop" it was called...he gave it up after a few years...said it was "interfering with his fishing", lol. He distributed cards of jigs around to the local lakes...can remember my father painting the plugs and when I was small dipping jig heads. The big ole cement bait tank was my favorite, crawdads and minnows...remember it like it was yesterday...I always looked forward to going to his house. Have a feeling if anyone would have one, you would...his plug "The Judges Jawbreaker" ( patented in 1956)...was noted to be the best walleye plug there was...came in a plastic oblong case with an insert that read "If the fish are hungry they'll bite it, if not, They'll fight it". There were about 1000 sold...probably few left around. We still have some of his original jig dispay cards and old equipment. They are listed in Dean Murphys book of patented Mo. fishing tackle...I know where this book can be purchased if it would interest you...kinda think it would, lol. Would you my friend happen to own one of the few " Judges Jawbreakers" that still exists away in an old tackle box ? If not, I would try...I said try to send you a picture of one...being the self proclaimed computer moron I am. Thanks for the information about the motors, I find it very interesting...the 10 horse Johnson I ran for years was my grandfathers...it complimented the old long jon nicely. If and when my father decides to let go of some of these motors would you like to know...as with you, they all purr like a kitten...reckon they are probably kinda rare these days. Again, thanks for the neat thoughts and words...I know I would enjoy talking with you sometime. Take care my friend...can tell you a unique individual.

CC Yes it was aluminum...inside wooden transom...don't recall the maker. My father and I still have all the motors...if memory serves me right the little 3 horse has no nuetral or reverse...you pull the cord and your off...direct drive I reckon. Sweet little motor, idles down so slow and takes little gas as you said. The boat had sat for 10 yrs. or so and I had just finished restoring it and the trailer from top to bottom. Got to use it twice before it was smashed by the kids running from the law. I have pictures of the boat after the damage...makes me sick to look at them...that boat was like a part of me...memories are all I have now. When we bought the boat the trailer was too short for the boat...going over low spots had damaged the bottom of the rear of the boat. We had the toungue of the trailer extended 4 ft. and 1/4 inch steel welded to the underside of the trailer vertically...we did this so you could walk the toungue out to the boat with out bending the toungue and avoid getting wet...trailer was just too long and flemsy but at least the boat didn't hang 4 ft off the back of the trailer which is why the bottom of the boat had been damaged. Years back when I was able I once took 4 friends and myself on a float down the North Fork of the White. I had my 1956 10 horse Johnson, 5 men and all our tackle and we put in at Kellys Shoals...just below Rainbow Springs and floated to Patrick bridge. There were several bridges we had to carry the boat around. Just below Blair bridge was very tough water, lots of boulders...I could see only i spot to try to run it and there was a fisherman standing right in it, I tried my best to be curteous and move over a little and he would not budge an inch...in the proccess I felt the boat drag over something...moments later the friend in front of me turned to me and said there was a hole on the boat. It was a hole alright...must have hit some old rebar in a chunk if concrete under the surface or something...it ripped a tear thru the bottom of the boat about 8 to 10 inches long and bent the front of the back bench seat in the boat...couldn't believe it and we were taking on water fast. We pulled over and I always carried an old body hammer in the boat. We used some tin cans and that body hammer and repaired the boat as good as we could on the river bank and made it to Patrick bridge bailing out water all the rest of the way. Needless to say I did not get to fish much that trip and the only spot we walked the boat around besides the bridges was the falls...all I did the whole trip was prop my feet against the seat in front of me and with a 6 ft. lond sasafras paddle with a wide blade on it which I made for that boat work my but off the whole day. The next day...well...I was mighty sore, lol. Hows this for the ramblings of a jon boat man? sorry for the lengthy post

had a 22 ft. 32 inch wide square stern river jon for about 30 yrs. ran a 56 10 horse johnson...stepped up to a 18 horse 73 johnson. boat had a jack my father and I made...had several different motors all the way down to a 3 horse. trailer was 28 ft. long...best river jon I have ever fished out of and operated. before that I had a 17 ft.paddle jon...didn't even compare to the 22 footer...3 could fish from the 22 ft.jon real fine...allot of memories in that old boat...fished about every river in mo and ark with that boat. about 4 yrs ago some meth heads running from the cops broad sided it...just had re-done the whole boat and trailer...used it twice after it had sit for a few yrs....sure miss that old boat...sold it bent in half for scrap...those were the days..

what I mean by the good ole boy network can be anyone involved in the local politics due to wealth, family, being a native of the community, influential, many many things...even down to a peon like me, lol. Can exist in and at any level of the business and political world...I know lots of just good old boys, lol

he allows anyone to fish up thru it or float down thru it...he does not mind...the can was the kicker...if not for that he would not have said a word. He has a gate entering his property...locks have been shot...chains have been cut...his house has been robbed...you have no idea the problems he has contended with. he has done everything within the law to avoid these problems...he is only on the property on the week-ends...works in the city. He is very open and receptive when it comes to the river...just tired of picking up trash and vandalism.

Good thoughts hank, Buffers you mention...whats good for the stream...whats good for the fisherman...whats good for the floater...well my friend, you know as well as I some will feel their rights are being taken away. Bottom line...you can't please everyone no matter what is proposed...it's a double edged sword. good points given

brysmallie, jusy my opinion but I have experienced this. I have a friend who owns land on both sides of an upper strech of an ozark river. About 3/4 mile downstream there is an MDC access. With the exception of a few put in points which are accessable by crossing private property or by county road (a cement slab bridge) the river is predominently inaccessable for many miles unless one is trespassing to get to it. He and I are standing on a bluff above a cave which is on his land which extends on both sides of the river. Mind you his land has already been trashed numerous times, cave raped and totally mutilated, gravel bars trashed by 4 wheelers, the list goes on. We are standing on the bluff and here come 2 guys walking up the bank along the river not knowing we are watching them. We observe them for a bit as they begin to fish a nice hole right in front of the cave. One of them finishes a drink he has and pitches the can off in the brush...pisses my friend off and he yells at them..."You are trespassing on private land...GET OUT of here". One guy turns to the other one and says "get in the water quick, he can't do nothing if were in the water". An arguement starts...he threatens to call the sheriffs dept, they say go ahead, they know the law and he does not own the bottom of the river. You are the landowner...what do you do? For many years these slab bridges accessable by county roads have been party holes for the locals, big drunken river parties. Bond fires on the bridges, burnt tires, tons of broken bottles in and out of the water, any kind of vehicle you can name running in around and across the banks and river, matresses, chairs, dead animals, dumping trash...places are totally trashed in and around the water with about anything you can name. It's all privately owned with the exception of the county road with a few feet on each side and the slab bridge. You're the landowner with this huge problem right in the middle of your land. What do you do? Remember you are dealing with the "Good Ole Boy Network" on a local level. Most of the landowners I know have chosen to and have been forced due the damage being inflicted to there property to try their best to keep poeple out. There have been numerous court cases concerning these type incedents. Depending on who the landowner is and who the prosecuting attorney in the county (whom may or may not be part of the GOB network) most of these cases go no where...if charges do stick knowing how some people are you can imagine the problems this landowner suffers in the future. It is all in stewardship between folks and respecting the landowners rights and likewise towards honorable fisherman. If he had not seen them throw a can in the brush...instead maybe see them pick one up...I doubt he would have said a word. I ask again...what would you do if you were the landowner and this was your property?

3wt, was it real stringy slick almost snotty looking stuff, if so...thats filamentous algae. Water I would say is low, not allot of current. IMO it's the fertile water due to the park. need a good rise on the river to flush it out...middle to end of the summer it generally gets worse if the water stays low.

Just my opinion, You can partially thank the MDC and the DNR for the weeds, slick rocks, etc. There is more than would naturally occur due to the waste generated from the campground septic pools just below the park that pipe it straight in the river and the waste from the raceways that is flushed in the river day in and day out. I have been told by others it wasn't always done like that concerning the raceways...they used to pump the waste out but that method was abandoned in years past. The cabins right below the park boundary in the water there is a cement structure that sticks out in the water...contains a pipe that comes directly from the septic pools that hold the waste from the campground restrooms. Due to both these things the water is far more fertile than it would be otherwise...more fertile the water is the better algae and any type of water plants grow. JMO...but I think this attributes to the problem. Gavin is right also...the parks do cut back the junk from time to time...parts would get unfishable if they didn't. IMO the junk should be pulled out on the banks and composted or something but you see where allot of it ends up.

Hank Franklin...well stated my friend When the time comes for us to step up so our grandchildren can enjoy still having a little clean water...hope someone with a big fat wallet steps up with us poor folk because it will be an expensive lengthy battle in our judicial system...imo it's broken like many other things. When the time comes it will be interesting to say the least, lol

Just my opinion, JC, they should be willing to supply the information you request...it's our dollars, they should be able to explain to us where they are spent...the info is available to us but well cloaked and too often the issues are side stepped. Let me put it like this... the crux of the bisquit is the apostrophe...you know what I mean? Brysmallie, IMO, I reflect your thoughts and feelings...where tax dollars are used for revenue the system generally runs amuck, plain and simple. The internet allows people to find info and use that info to be arguementive towards almost any service rendered they are responsible to pay for...gives the non knowing a know it all attitude...have encountered this during many job arenas in my life. At least most of these matters are concerning their own monies...trying on their part in this world as it is today to spend wisely. IMO that's all that anyone wants...if you give your kids, spouse, neigbor, friend, etc money you want to make sure it is being used wisely or you will be hesitant to give it again, right? Most things these days...well... simple matters are over complicated to the point of ignorance, over talked, over studied...imo it's totally rediculous. Most talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Like I have stated before...many things in this world are on the endangered list...If it is on the endangered list it will be studied till it's extinct....ALL TALK, NO ACTION...it's a trend that is destroying everything from a little darter in an ozark stream to mankind itself...it saddens me, but...it is what it is...we have to deal with it the best way we can...there will always be actions we don't agree with...the only control we have is how we react to these actions. Empathy, humanity, logic...many values seem to have been lost in the clutter these days.

not familiar with greers lake...know greers landing but no greers lake...where abouts is it? thanks in advance