john19

There is no difference in the product, Capitalism is what makes our country spin and the right to do what ever you want as long as it is LEGAL. You all have made valid comments and I think that a fly shop could capitalize on this if they wanted to. I would rather the person that is doing everything Legal and that has made the life long investment to make the money. WOO HOO for Brian he found some fly lines on sale bought everyone of them I bet he has only $25-30/line invested. Hope he does well with his venture. I have actually had some problems with fly lines and they were due to manufacture defect I had to return with a paid receipt form where I bought them and the company which BTW was Rio replaced them. If I had no receipt then RIO said they would not replace them so I guess if I paid $50 for a line I might as well burned the $50 . I had to learn this the hard way with a reel I bought from an individual he told me it had a lifetime warranty on it the reel had to have some work done on it about 3 months latter. I sent it in with my return address on it they called me and asked about the name for the repair order I told them the story. I am now out my $150 and am a proud owner of a reel that does not work. Again Good luck and congrats to Brian on finding a good deal and capitalizing on it.

I think that you all have missed the point and I bet if you were in retail business for your self you would understand the topic more. You have done everything in your power to make sure that people are coming through your door for what ever product it might be. You have made an investment then some joe blow off the cuff person comes across a deal and then tries to capitalize on your customers. Thats not right and I am willing to bet the farm that he/she is trying to double the money that he /she has invested. So who would you rather make the money, some fly by the night or some one that has an established business and will always be there with help and answers to your needs. Yes we are in survival mode and I can assure you that people that own there own business and that is their lively hood need the money more than someone with a day job and a steady income that runs across a deal then tries to capitalize on the find.

I am with Michael and Troutgod on this one. I support the shops and always will they have stuff discounted in the shops that I will buy. In fact I was in a Readings right be for the parks closed and he had some fly lines that were on sale I bought 3 lines for $100. (they were 70 dollar/line) Not bad and I know if something happens to them Charlie will take care of me. I wonder what will happen if there are problems with any thing that is sold like this. Oh yea forsythian said as long as it is legal. I would assume that everything is being reported as either income or through the MDR as sales tax via a state issued sales tax number and the appropriate percent is being payed to our fine government.

I do understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion so this is mine. Wild vs. Stream bred I am with Laker on this one. I can not understand how people can say they are wild. The only places where there are true wild rainbows are places like Russia and Alaska. Those are true WILD TROUT. I have fished NFOW and I have also fished over in Russia and have lived in Alaska, these fish are no comparison to the wild trout of these places, but it is what you make it and the NFOW has come long way in the past 20 years. Wild to me and a lot of people is no intervention of the man if they survive they survive if not they go extinct. Trout are not native to the Ozarks, so this makes them stream bred. Just because they spawn in the river does not make them wild I am sure we can see trout spawning in our State Parks does this make them wild nope just confused where the race way is located. Last time I checked with the MDC they are stocking Browns in the river who's to say a few rainbows get mixed in? Now that I have thought about it I have caught plenty of Rainbows in MO. Largest Trout Park releasing eggs (TANEYCOMO) Yep I said it thats what it is put and take or Grow what ever you want to call it so I guess they are wild too.. The only true way to check would be to do a DNA test on them to see what hatchery they come form and when they come from.

I was down last week and stopped in Backcountry Outfitters to get some new gear. I was looking for a new rod and reel Michael showed me the new Sage 99 rod took it out and cast it WOW what a rod So I bought it. It is the 9'9" long and is a 5 wt. I new the true test would be to fish it all I have to say is WOW what a Rod. I love this thing the rod cast very easy handles the nymph rigs well in the wind but to me the greatest thing on this rod is the feel. You can feel this rod all the way down to the butt section. For a M/F action rod it has some flex to it. It really reminds me of the old XP rod. KUDOS to Sage for keeping new innovations coming our way to help us catch more fish. Thank you Michael for helping me out and getting me all rigged up you sure run and operate a great shop. John

From the way the post came off of the tying section of the forum where you asked which one I would say you are right they are KNOCK OFFS. I wonder if anyone has ever heard of the Meat Whistle from Mr.Barr. Looks like somebody bought a book.

I Live up in in St.Louis now and have been fishing Taney alot in the day time while we were down on vacation stop in to Charted waters fly shop and was going to hire him for the day he was booked. I Thought he was a good guy but then I read his report form June 19. I thought I would share with you all just what he thinks of everyone down there. I know what I will do I will never go back in his shop or need his service after the slob comment. June 19th - An early morning wade trip! What Taneycomo is all about as far as I'm concerned. The fog, the birds...the slobs haven't got out of bed yet so you have the place to yourselves...textbook! Tom and his son Scott were with me to enjoy this wonderful Ozarks morning. A couple more first time fly fisherman that I must say, picked it up as well as anyone I've ever taken out. When we head out at dawn like we have been lately there is one set up that I'm starting out with on Every rod EVERY day. The Bit Scud Shell #20 above a purple/wine SG-Bug also in a #20. It's the Low Light Special. We have the sun just coming up and usually a thick fog. These guys hammered fish ALL DAY LONG and just couldn't believe how much fun and how productive this fly fishing could be. Just to kick things off I got a nice pic of SCott in what might be his new screen saver. From there on it was just fish after fish, double after double...just ridiculous catching for these guys. We started our day at the Island and for 3 hours it was non stop for us. Eventually the aforementioned slobs started swarming us. Not before the fog cleared and we transitioned over to the "sunny" fare. Olive, black, gray Bit Scuds...Gray X-Series...then trail the more natural colored G and SG-Bugs like olive, ginger/olive, wine...all in #20's. Doesn't seem to matter too much when it gets sunny out and especially if we get wind. We got some wind today and we were even using "big" #16 Soft Shelled Scuds and not skipping a beat. In the morning 7x fluorocarbon is a MUST if you want to have a good bite and if it stays calm (no wind) then you'll need to stick with that even later in the day. We switched over to 6x when the chop came on the water and stayed hooked up pretty well. Some people NEVER fish 7x...thats a mistake! That reminds me of a story my buddy Rudy told me a year or two ago. He had wanted a last minute trip with us and I was booked so he went with another service. I know the guide he took. A great guide, good fisherman, good teacher and good person in general. It was one of those tougher than average bites so we switched over to 7x pretty early and had a good day. Rudy's fished with me long enough to know how I think out there so when their day was going pretty slow he suggested maybe they should try 7x tippet? The response was something like..."no. we just need to find the right fly." Well, there's no denying that the right fly makes a difference too but I've done tests myself proving the difference between 7x and 6x. I've fished little runs before where it's a fish a drift (at least a hit a drift) that make a great proving ground. Getting hit every drift with 7x fluorocarbon tippet, I'll then take the exact same flies, weight , float etc and change it all over to 6x. I'll go from a fish a drift to a fish every 4-5 drifts. I've done the same with fluorocarbon tippet and change over to regular monofilament tippet. Same results though usually worse for the mono tippet than just up sizing flouro. There's no denying it...size matters. And if I was Michael Scott I'd say "that's what she said"...but I'm more mature than that. I hope my wife's not reading this. She would laugh at me using my name and the word "mature" in the same sentence. But she's just a big poppy pants anyway. Well just another couple of rock solid individuals these two were. Nice as can be and a pleasure to spend a morning with. Worth a note to say we finished our day at The Rock where only one other person was there (briefly). It was pure, catching solitude.

Yep I love those places too. But there could a problem if all the big fish started dying at the same time and there were no small fish to replace them. Most generally speaking fish that weigh the same are the same year class. And yes I know that there can be some exception to that rule, beacuse some fish will grow at diffrents rates.

I believe that the word Conservation means WISE USE. I would like to get an MDC ichthyologist to comment on this I believe that Bill Anderson is the main one on this lake unless he has retired. I never claimed to be an expert, I was just supporting my argument in this debate with documentation in which a smart debater will do. So tuck your tail and run and when your specific area is over populated with one size of fish and you cant figure out why; don't come into ours and try and screw it up. Oh yea we will wave from our fish fry as you go by.

You must not like checks and balance, you must have never seen places that are catch and release only. I have seen them where quite a few years down the road there is an over abundance of one size either it be small or big. And that is my reason to say they do more damage. Yep I would like to say it would be great but I have yet to see any ichthyologist say thats what you will need to do C&R only. They will have recommendations on what size of fish to keep, I would also venture out there to say that how slot limits are made and even come about in some areas. Now if the fish are in danger with low numbers they will say C&R and probably not to even target that spices. and maybe even close the area to fishing all together.

You said absolutely All I was trying to say is that fish die. NO MATTER HOW YOU OR WHERE YOU HOOK THEM! I catch and release I catch and eat I support both but I am not about to set there and say because I catch and release I'm not killing fish. I for one think that a person that is C&R only will do more damage to a fishery because there has to be a checks and balance in a fishery for the ecosystem to survive . If we do not keep any fish one of the the side will get out of balance then you will see some stuff happen fish kills , because of over population. I just wonder what all the old timers would think about this topic I am talking about the ones that were guiding be for they dammed the white river up. How did they survive. One last thing if you catch and release fish here in your own lake do you eat fish at a restaurant, they have to come from some where so whats the difference. Eat more fish it will be better in the log run. Hey fly guy I think thats is your user name did you find the Brown Bass recipe

I will have to say that all fish are susceptible to the lactic acid build up does not matter the species of fish. here is another article. Sorry for putting so many articles up by other people I just do not have any that have been published yet and I want to have facts to back up my statement. This article explains Lactic Acid Lactic acid (IUPAC systematic name: 2-hydroxypropanoic acid), also known as milk acid, is a chemical compound that plays a role in several biochemical processes. It was first isolated in 1780 by a Swedish chemist, Carl Wilhelm Scheele, and is a carboxylic acid with a chemical formula of C3H6O3. It has a hydroxyl group adjacent to the carboxyl group, making it an alpha hydroxy acid (AHA). In solution, it can lose a proton from the acidic group, producing the lactate ion CH3CH(OH)COO−. It is miscible with water or ethanol, and is hygroscopic. Lactic acid is chiral and has two optical isomers. One is known as L-(+)-lactic acid or (S)-lactic acid and the other, its mirror image, is D-(−)-lactic acid or ®-lactic acid. L-(+)-Lactic acid is the biologically important isomer. In animals, L-lactate is constantly produced from pyruvate via the enzyme lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) in a process of fermentation during normal metabolism and exercise. It does not increase in concentration until the rate of lactate production exceeds the rate of lactate removal which is governed by a number of factors including: monocarboxylate transporters, concentration and isoform of LDH and oxidative capacity of tissues. The concentration of blood lactate is usually 1–2 mmol/L at rest, but can rise to over 20 mmol/L during intense exertion. Industrially, lactic acid fermentation is performed by Lactobacillus bacteria, among others. These bacteria can operate in the mouth; the acid they produce is responsible for the tooth decay known as caries. In medicine, lactate is one of the main components of Ringer's lactate or lactated Ringer's solution (Compound Sodium Lactate or Hartmann's Solution in the UK). This intravenous fluid consists of sodium and potassium cations, with lactate and chloride anions, in solution with distilled water in concentration so as to be isotonic compared to human blood. It is most commonly used for fluid resuscitation after blood loss due to trauma, surgery, or a burn injury. Basically as you can see chasing shad is a normal thing for fish to do with no to very little stress but a line with a hook jerking the fish out of water is added stress, not a normal activity. If one thinks that this a normal activty lets have you do nothing for a year then tell you to run 5 miles not normal. You have to build up to the 5 miles Basically what lactic acid does in laymen terms is shut the Sodium Potassium pump down in the muscles, Which will basically paralyze an animal. Basically what you have to do to the animal is inject Calcium to get the pumps going again to where the animal can have access and the ability for there muscles to function again. I will assure you that there are more fish that die after you release them and than we will know. I'm sure there are a lot of fish that die to predation, there are fish that die of old age. But I don't see how some one can sit there and say I catch and release there for I kill no fish.

I was not going to put the name out but since the moderator wants names to back up statements it was Bass Pro Company tournament 70 boats. Plus if any of you think that all fish will live you do not know what lactic acid is here is an article Whether we are speaking of Bass or the Freshwater/Saltwater fish in your aquarium all fish have what is called a Slime Coat that protects them from infections. This Slime Coat is vital for a fish to stay healthy. Unfortunately,among the many ways for a fish to lose their slime coat is by coming in contact with humans. Because of this how we handle our catch may be what determines whether or not they live. If a fish loses it's slime coat the effects are not immediately seen. The fish will begin to become stressed lowering it's ability to fight off infections which can be fatal. When you catch a fish try to handle it with only one hand. And make sure your hand is wet. If you are going to pose for a picture only hold the fish by the mouth and release it back to the water as soon as possible. For Bass larger than 10lbs you can support the bass using a second hand around the tail, once again making sure your hand is wet. The use of gloves are acceptable but only if they are clean and relatively new. Laying a bass on the carpet of a boat is not recommended and in all cases can be avoided aside from the rare accident. For this reason using a net is not recommended as most often the bass is placed on the carpet in order to get it out of the net. Previously, I mentioned that stress can be fatal to a fish. Stress is one way to describe how a fish becomes weak and starts to lose it's slime coat. The act of being caught is very stressful to a bass and raises it's lactic acid levels in their muscle tissues. Lactic acid is what races to muscle tissue to raise blood flow when a force is exerted. The lactic acid helps the muscle to fight off infection to heal but is also what causes you to feel pain the day after a workout. This lactic acid if raised too high is what leads to mortality. When you hook a bass try not to "horse" the fish out of the water. The more the bass fights, the higher the lactic acid levels will raise. Do not be in a hurry to get the bass into the boat but instead play the fish. The more you pull on the fish the more the fish will pull back Basically the fish may swim off but latter might die. Two more articles about bass mortality in tournaments. GENE GILLILAND (Oklahoma Fishery Research Laboratory, 500 E. Constellation, Norman, Oklahoma 73072) The Oklahoma Fishery Research Laboratory (OFRL) began a two-year project in spring 1995 to determine delayed mortality rates of largemouth bass following tournament release. Three tournaments in the spring and two in the summer were monitored. Fish were held in large live-nets placed in marina boat stalls after weigh-in. Up to 30 tournament bass per net were held for six days after each contest along with control fish collected by electroshocking. Dissolved oxygen and temperature were measured in the nets and in contestant’s boat live wells as they came to shore. Spring tournament total mortality (initial + delayed) was less than 6%. Spring water temperatures average 63°F and live-well oxygen levels averaged 7.3 ppm. In the summer, we recorded less than 7% initial mortality. However, after six days we experienced an average of 39% delayed mortality. Most of the fish died between the third and sixth day after weigh-in. High water temperatures (average of 80°F) and low oxygen levels in boat live wells (minimums of 1.3 ppm) were measured. At one summer tournament fish were separated according to oxygen in boat live wells, one group from ‘‘low-oxygen’’ live wells (<6.0 ppm) and another from ‘‘high-oxygen’’ live wells (>6.0 ppm). Fish in the low oxygen group experience a 51% delayed mortality rate while the fish in the high-oxygen group had only a 35% delayed mortality rate. Boaters that ran their aerators continuously rather than relying on a timer had better oxygen levels in their live wells and 16% lower mortality. The second year of our mortality study (1996) will test procedures that have been recommend by other researchers to see what Tournament Directors and anglers can do to reduce summer mortality One more Dispersal, Stress Response and Delayed Mortality of Largemouth Bass Caught in Live-Release Tournaments Principal Investigator: P.W. Bettoli* and M. Redding Funding Agency: Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency Project Period: July 1, 2005-June 30, 2009 The high incidence of voluntary catch-and-release by bass fishermen and the mandatory release of tournament-caught fish reflect the notion by most anglers that released fish recover quickly and suffer low mortality rates. Under ideal conditions, total mortality rates at bass tournaments can be kept low. Conversely, poorly managed tournaments and high temperatures can result in high (> 26%) mortality of released fish. Although many authors have reported initial mortality rates (i.e., at weigh-in), that rate alone is not an indicator of tournament-associated mortality because most bass are reported alive when released after tournament weigh-ins. In recent years Canadian researchers have investigated the physiological stress response of largemouth bass captured during fishing tournaments. Suski et al. (2003) documented large metabolic disturbances in tournament caught largemouth bass. Suski et al. (2004) demonstrated that hypoxia due to transferbag confinement can be more lethal than poor water quality and confinement in livewells. Other researchers have also observed poor water quality in water-filled transfer bags used during the traditional weigh-in process (Edwards et al. 2004). Increased bass densities and elevated water temperatures in transfer bags can rapidly cause hypoxia, resulting in mortality (Suski et al. 2004). In collaboration with researchers at Queens University (Ontario, Canada) and the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada, the fishing tackle firm Shimano developed a Water Weigh-In System to alleviate stressors associated with typical tournament weigh-in procedures. The system allows bass to be kept in well oxygenated water in baskets (as opposed to bags) as anglers queue to have their catch weighed, and the fish are weighed in water, which has two benefits: air exposure is eliminated when fish are weighed, and fish spend less time on the scales because they struggle less when held in water. Research on the efficacy of water-weigh-ins in reducing metabolic disturbances in largemouth bass has been restricted to Canadian waters, which do not experience the high water temperatures typical of southern U.S. reservoirs in summer. Telemetry has been used to monitor hooking mortality of free-ranging striped bass (Bettoli and Osborne 1998). Attaching transmitters to fish to measure delayed tournament mortality would eliminate concerns over confinement, artificially high fish densities in pens, or exposure to elevated temperatures. Telemetry would also provide additional data such as the dispersal rate of tournament caught bass. Most largemouth bass displaced in a Canadian lake did not return to their original home ranges (Ridgway 2002). Tournament activity that displaces significant numbers of bass could have ecological effects and management implications for reservoir populations (Wilde 2003). The objectives of this study are to (1) compare the physiological response of largemouth bass that experience normal weigh-in procedures to those that experience a water weigh-in procedure at temperatures typical of Tennessee reservoirs in summer; (2) compare delayed mortality of largemouth basin subjected to each weigh-in procedure; (3) relate physiological disturbances experienced by tournament-caught largemouth bass to their long-term survival; (4) monitor dispersal of largemouth bass from tournament weigh-in sites; and (5) perform public outreach to demonstrate weigh-in procedures that reduce tournament mortality. References Edwards, G. P. Jr., R. M. Neumann, R. P. Jacobs, and E. B. O’Donnell. 2004. Factors related to mortality of black bass caught during small club tournaments in Connecticut. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 24: 801-810. Osborne, R. and P. W. Bettoli. 1995. A reusable ultrasonic tag and float assembly for use with large pelagic fish. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 15:512-514. Ridgway, M. S. 2002. Movements, home range, and survival estimation of largemouth bass following displacement. American Fisheries Society Symposium 31:525-533. Suski, C. D., S. S. Killen, S. J. Cooke, J. D. Kieffer, D. P. Philipp, and B. L. Tufts. 2004. Physiological significance of the weigh-in during live-release angling tournaments for largemouth bass. Transactions of the American Fisheries Society 133: 1291-1303. Suski, C.D., S. S. Killen, M. B. Morrissey, S. G. Lund and B. L. Tufts. 2003. Physiological changes in largemouth bass caused by live-release angling tournaments in southeastern Ontario. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 23:760-769. Thats all I have right know just more food for thought

Wow I just saw this today I can not believe I just read all 118 post. I have a few questions 1)Do any of the guides that commented on this thread fish tournaments( the reason I ask this is because you all seem to be a huge advocate of the Bass fishery down here) I do not see how a guide can advocate both 2) Does any body know the mortality rate of Bass tournaments? 3) Do you guys that strictly catch and release think that all your fish live after you release them. If so why. 4) Not to name any store or resort but why would some one have a Bass tourney on Table Rock during the spawn and allow you fish with live bait. Thats all I have right now

Holly @#@@# yourself It is ok for DD'sMC to say something about the size of the fish And obvious when you read my post you get offended as all can see I was joking as you can see I said It will taste like trout chow. Take a joke You must have a guilty conscious Don't take things so personal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!