Jon

Ok, lets start fresh here. I see and understand your opinion. Very valid and good points. Though I'm not in total agreement of catch and release of all LMBass, I see your point on spawning season fishing and tourniments during this period. Here is my take on your topic, ok go ahead and cancel fishing in what ever way demable to keep the female bass from being caught off thier nests or do this with canceling tourniments not the regular guy that just fishes, either catch and release or catch and keep. I mean at some point we have to be talking about a balance here. In my mind, if you do this for three years, what effect will this have on the ecosystem of that lake? From what I understand once water temps. reach a certain temp. LMbass go into thier growing and feeding periods, also governed by other circumstances, but if you boost the populations of these fish, at some point, you have to reach a saturation point in the population. Also with a boost in population after a few years of this, at what point do you think they would be starting to eat alot of thier own fry? Are they eating thier own fry now? To me, we catch and keep guys have aplace in fishing society. I think we keep some things in balance. This is just how I see it. No one told me this, I have no names ,dates or anything else. You can take it for what it's worth. If it's worth nothing to you, so be it, if it makes sense to you fine. So who really knows. Like Whackem stated, 90 sum percent of LMbass anglers practice catch and release on that lake. According to a Bass angling book I have, an average LMbass can average a lifespan of 16yrs. But what costs do catch and release guys have verses the tourniment guys on released fish. asking a fisheries biologist of this state, they feel the mortality rate is very low on released fish if handled properly which means limited handling and released ASAP. Tourniment guys are in a different catagory as release fishermen. I was told there is a big difference between releasing right back to the water and keeping fish in a livewell all day and then releasing. Of course there's the tourniment guys who sware by the additives, so I don't know for sure. I think if your going to release, it's just better to do it right away instead of waiting. Just me. It does seem hypocritical to tout catch and release and still angle for fish off of spawning beds. Me? I still believe in catch and keep for the most part. I have released LMbass back before myself, not often but I do now and again. I also still stand by what I've said in my posts. What may have happened on TB lake is one thing I can't say honestly, but I've confirmed some of what I've said in my posts with talking to a fisheries biologist. I still agree that Bill has good points and am sure he has vast knowledge of TB lake. Oh and Bill, I'm sorry but I'm not devulging a name, my idea not his. Take the remarks for what they are worth which to you is worth nothing without a name to back up the claims, but I know for sure now in my own mind of the facts with what was in my posts for the most part. Still having an ongoing exchange with him. In finishing, I have learned one thing that I will take away from this topic and discussion about some folks in this forum. That is the fact that if you don't agree with the majorities outlook on things around here, you will get chastised and picked apart by some people. While some have a good knowledge of things, they forget that people can formulate an opinion on thier own without having someone else tell them how it is, and should'nt be ran through the gauntlet for doing so. Nor should select people be the only ones to be asked to validate and give names to back up thier opinions just because they don't conform to the majorities view of things or does'nt fall in line with anothers experience. Oh and I don't think stock jockey realised he was in court when he made a simple reply to a topic. If your constantly asking for proof of someones statments, I see that as a sad way to go through life. Also if everyone had to back up everything they said or had an opinion on, I don't think there would be awhole lot of dialog between people. If you don't believe the statement, state your own opinion as fact and go down the road. If so many people know you and know your stating the truth, fine, don't call people liars because they have different outlook and opinions on how things work. We all know money makes the world go around, thats no mystery.

Phil, I don't know what to say accept I guess I'm in the wrong neighborhood. You know, I've appologised for what ever you or anyone here took offense to. But that little snipit that was offensive was'nt the whole sentence. What I said I did'nt think was all that bad. So with that and the last post- quote, I'm REALLY done. my last post.

I for one am glad to see it. Being I live around some of those lakes, it's nice to see some real fishing reports for those lakes. It's just gonna take some time to get going. Not to well known yet until some people find it.

OK, now I'm really done! Have an nice weekend Wack'em, and keep throwing those fish back so I can eat'm. j/k

Yeh that response was alittle over the top. But I've seen what happens when a movement to regulate wildlife get's steamrolling. In example, Antler restrictions. In order to satisfy certain orginizations in this state, MDC passed special antler restriction regulations to improve trophy bucks. Meanwhile the overall populations explode, which was the real reason those regulations were in place in the first place. To control populations and serve the public with a balanced heard. This topic was orignaly about catch and release vs. tournement fishing in spring over spawning bass. Or something like that. Don't get me wrong, I understand the topic and the discussion it grew into totaly. An yes I was addressing the discussion and not the specfic topic, I realise that per the quote. Are'nt they realated though? Don't you discuss a topic and reply to the discussion as well as the original topic? But since you decided to single my thread out, I'd like to point out that I am pretty sure I'm not the only one with "off " subject threads here. You want my IYO? I have absolutley nothing against controversial topics, and usually try to avoid them for just this reason. A topic may start as that topic from the start. But topics especialy controversial topics grow into sub related topics or "discissions" as this one has and here we are. Totally off discussion and topic. Yes I read a majority of the threads, and am still addressing the discussion. It may not sound like it to you, but I still respect others opinions, even though I may say things others won't or others do not like. I usualy don't like to "surgar coat" responses when it's something that may concern me. Thus is the reason I try to stay out of these topics. The over whelming feeling I got from the responses was a genuine dislike or non understanding for fishermen that do not fall in line with the "catch and release" that others view as the only correct way to do it. It may have not been written in words but it's the feeling I got from this discission...... derived from the initial topic. Yes I probably over reacted at first. To me though a topic is open for discussion as is the discussion. Even though my first response was less than tactful in certain areas. I am only trying to get my point across just like everyone else. Tell me, in IYO, what part of my response had absolutley nothing to do with the discussion or topic? So what are we going to discuss next? My bad spelling? Thats usually what gets hammered next. In closing, I opologise if I offended anyone here, even the catch and release guys...... I'm done.

Whack'em, I'll agree with you on one point. Your probably correct that 90% of "BASS FISHERMEN" do practice catch and release. But I'm talking about fishermen as a whole. Your normal down the street next door neighbor fishermen in boat or on the bank is not throwing a legal size Bass back in the water. As far as a healthy population, As I've stated before, I'm 100% sure that if the Bass population were in trouble, the regulations set by the MDC would be adjusted accordingly or something would be done to secure future fish populations. If they don't adjust regulations or do something, then to me, they are not managing Missouri's fishery correctly. Basicaly not doing thier job. I respect yours and everyones opinions on catch and release, may not agree all the time on everything. But sometimes these types of arguments catch fire. I will never haggle anyone for doing so if thats what they want to do so long as they are not looking down thier noses at me for just enjoying catching and eating fish. Lord knows my youngest daughter critisizes me enough for not releasing fish everytime I bring some home.

Bill, I'll guarentee you 100% that if those fish populations dropped low enough, the MDC would definitley do something with regulations to CONTROL the numbers taken or kept. Money is always a reason for just about everything, because it takes revenue to upkeep the fishery. I will also guarnetee that regulations are set to control populations period. The populations are what bring the tourism to that lake or any lake with resorts or guide services. The only resaon I could see or understand your comment with the MDC not being concerned with fish populations is the fact that they can restore those populations with stocking programs. But that costs money also. So I can't see this as a viable reason for that comment. Common sense tells me that the MDC is concerned about populations because of money they would have to spend on stocking programs when they could be puting that money to another lake stocking program. Hipotheticaly, if Table Rock Lake were the only lake in Missouri, it would get unmeasurable fishing pressure. This would cause the MDC to react with A. tighter fishing regulations and limits and or B. a stocking program to keep the population stable. Now this is hypotheticaly speaking. It's not reality but if a lake got as much fishing pressure from non locals as locals, and popluations would dwendle if the proper regulations were not in place. Why else would the MDC do shocking to count and measure fish other than to get an estimate of the fish population and health or the fishery. It would be a total mismanagment of a natural recource. I realise they use the eggs of target speacies when this happens, but I think they do this to help them regulate populations and thus regulations. I have several lakes close that are Walleye fisheries. I have some regulations from back in the 80's stating the length limits and posession limits. Length limits have dropped 3 inches since first being stocked. Now why would this be? To me common sense tells me that due to populations of the fish, the MDC has allowed the keeper size to be lowered. Why else would this happen? I could throw up a few more, but why. I have nothing against catch and release fishermen. If thats what they want to do, great. I'm not going to hackle a guy at the boat ramp over this. It's what he feels he needs to do. I try to keep a reasonable amount of keepers to eat. I'll eat a Bass just as easy as a Walleye. I know the Walleye is a better eating fish, but fish is fish to me. I'll settle for what I can get. If the Lord blesses me with catching Bass that day then thats what I'll fry. Heck I've released LM back to the water before nice size ones. I try to set a limit on bass, if I catch at least two to three, I'll keep them. If I catch one, it's going back to the water. But make no mistake, The sole reason for fishing for me is to catch something to eat first. Second, I just like to get out on the water. I have probably went out a dozen times and maybe one of those times I've caught keepers. My take on this whole thing is, I watch these guys on T.V. They are advocates of catch and release and usualy preach this on every episode. I akin this to Global warming or any other thing that catches on. "It's what everybodies doing", or Bill Dance does it so it's got to be " somthing I should be doing" like it's the only correct answer. Of coarse some of these guys release because they are fishing with guide services and thats thier bread and butter or it's a way to keep the PETA nuts at bay. But I see if enough people cry about catch and release around a certain lake, that there is a posibilty that it could happen at certain lakes. Especialy at lakes that have towns that are supported by guide services and resorts and vacationers dollars. To me, if my tax and permit dollars go towards supporting lakes built by the Corp. of Engineers, then I should be able to keep fish within the MDC regulations without descretion or persicution of catch and release advocates. If a certain lake wants to impliment catch and release only, then it should be a private lake supported by those guides and resorts that operate at that lake and people who want to fish at that lake. Not by the public tax payer.

I've kind of ran into this problem up here on Blue Springs lake. Understand this lake is not all that big and only has like two good coves with timber. Guess where alot of boats head right off? Yep right to those coves. I got there early one Saturday morning, and was fishing one side of this cove and another guy was fishing the otherside. We had just started at the mouth and was trolling inwards when the Tourniment let loose. I bet 5 or 6 boats came straight over to this cove. Instead of starting behind us and just trolling in following, they all headed straight down the middle of the cove, every one of them. It reminded me of being in a Wal-Mart parking lot, boats pull right in front of both of us that were there first. This example is what I see as rude and non cortious to others. If I pull into a cove, and some ones there, I give them plenty of space, sometimes I'll just go by and come back later. These guys just did'nt care, they just came on in and pulled right in front of us, then trolled around us fo a half hour and then buzzed out of there. Keep in mind this cove is like only 100 yrds. long and about 50 yrds wide with about 8 boats in it with tons of stumps and more you can't see til you hit'm. I was'nt nervous, I just kept fishing like they were'nt there, I did'nt give up my trolling path the whole time. The other guy gave up and left the cove. I have nothing against tourniment fishing. I like watching it and posibly will fish a few this year. I just think that the participents should give alittle more respect to the non tourniment guys. They are just out trying to relax and catch a few fish. These tourniment guys acted like you were trespassing and catching thier fish. Every fish you pull out of the water seems like taking money out of thier wallet. To bad so sad. The next weekend I cut a couple of tourniment guys off on a bank on the main lake and pulled out a 4 or 5 pound LM and a 3.5 to 4 pound Kentucky right in front of them. I say I cut them off but I pulled in 50 yrds. down from them, but they were trolling that way. They seen me pull those two out and another one flipped off, got kinda pissed and took off to the other side of the lake. Am I proud of doing this or is it hipoctitical? Yeh and yeh. Considering what happened to me the previous weekend, yeh on both. But I don't commonly practice cutting off people fishing. I try to respect thier "Zone".

Thanks guys, Appritiated.

Wow. I wonder just how many people that catch and release there are to how many that catch and FRY! I may be way off base here but I'm guessing the catch and fry crowd would be bigger. So to me here we have a minority of people overreacting to fish population problem that to my knowledge does'nt exsist and seems to be in very healthy condition and wants to dictate to the fish and fry crowd thier views and beliefs and going as far as wanting new regulations on this lake forcing the fish and fry crowd to catch and release fish ( LM Bass ). This is the most pathetic discussion I've came across on this board. You all have to be kidding. What ever happened to " keep your nose on your face"? If aguy wants to fish for sport, because thats what catch and release is, a sport, then so be it. He can do what he wants. To me it kind of sounds selfish to want someone who has landed a fish to throw it back so Joe Smo can catch him himself. After all, that person has also has paid the same permit fee, hauled his boat or butt to the lake and bought the gear to catch that fish. If he wants to eat it, why not? Why not? The excuse of protecting a population of fish that realy does'nt need any other protection accept the rules the MDC put forth just is not a viable excuse. If you want catch and release regulations, then what about the hunting crowd? Why not tranquilise and release deer/turkey so others can hunt the same animal? After you shoot it, get your picture taken and then release it back into the woods. Sounds real similar to me to the catch and release of fish but smaller scale. Also I'd figure that alot of catch and release fishermen that hunt would'nt be so keen on this idea. That'd cost extra money and alot of regulations. Why stop there! Cancel Spring Turkey season also, thats during turkey breeding season, or how about the peak rut of deer season, lets cancel that! Yeh right, at your own risk. Fishing over a bedded female bass is no different. To me thats how utterly rediculous this discussion is. Everyone pays thiersto participate in fishing or hunting. They follow the regulations set up by the MDC. The MDC sets regulations according to populations and areas along with fair chase rules. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but pushing me with some rediculous regulation of catch and release is stepping on my toes too, and I'm not going to sit back and watch some self ritious crowd ruin fishing for the other crowd that does it for enjoyment and using a natural recource that belongs to all of us to eat. That last thing we need is another regulation for fishing or hunting.

I'm heading to pomme on wendsday. Have'nt been there since back in the 80's. Anyone got any recent info, hot spots, water condition- temps, weather ect.? I'd like to get into some walley, bass or crappie. At this point I'm not to picky. Thanks for any info.

Thats awsome! Ditto here. Had four mature Gobblers within 50 yrds. Got one at about a 35 to 40 yrd. shot walking away. 21 lb. 9" beard and 1 1/4" spurs. He had some diggers! Jon.

Our local paper The K.C. Star, had a report of I think it was 43 deg. and walley was fair off the dam. Anyone know anymore? Jon.

Wow, where do I start? Got the boat re-carpeted. Done. Need to still re-carpet the live well lids and storage compartment lids. Not done, will get to it this summer. Boats ready to go though this spring. was'nt last spring. I'm ready to go now! Bought 3 new rods and two new reels. Two Berkley Cherrywood Graphites, and one Abu Garcia Cardinal rods. Not high dollar stuff, but hey, I'm just fishin. I mounted two new Diawa Regal 3000 xia open faced reels to the Cherrywood rod and Cardinal rod. Got all my reels re-spun with new thread. Bought several different walley lures, Lindy stuff, floating hook with trailer, spin blades of various colors, jig heads. Bought some new plugs for Walley. Bought some Berkley Gulp black leaches and minnows. Heard they work real well for the eye's. New rod holders for the basement wall. Rigged both new open face reels with Lindy rigs and hooks with spinner blades. re-organized my tackle box 12 times. i think I'm ready to go, no I am ready to go!

I watched alittle of it. The only thing I can say about women being in the classic is, remember, they can vote too. I look at this way. with all the anit this and anti that, we outdoorsmen and women need all the help we can get in the polls to keep our pastimes intact. This is realy no different than any other individual sport. I don't have any problem with women competing against men if they get there like everyone else. Jon.