Walcrabass

Kevin, Glad to hear you caught them on Jigs. That is my favorite way to catch Bass. I have been having similar luck with the worms which is NOT MUCH. I personally got away from the Football Jigs and fish another type of Jig. The Football Jigs just get hung up too much for me. The Jigs I use now are virtually snag free and stand up great. This gives the "Craw" a defensive position all the time. I have literally fished with the same Jig all summer in a particular color last year and did not lose it and believe me I throw it right IN the brush piles. I fish mostly plastic trailers but am still fond of Pork. Especially when I trim it and add Crawdad Oil. My last trip was last Sunday Morning starting at about 4:00 A.M. Fished until about 10:00 A.M. Only caught about 8 but I found some new spots. Caught two over 16". All were close to keeper length. All fish were close to deep water and where bank changed from chunk rock to gravel. Good Fishing Everybody,Football is on and I'll not get to go as much.

Kevin Wagner and fellow Bassers, Fished saturday night also. Pretty much same results early on. Started about 6:00 P.M. way up Son's Creek. Caught 4 or 5 short ones. They were chasing shad so I fished a Spinnerbait. Should've tied on a Shad colored Jig but wasn't interested in tearing holes in little fish. Went to Ruark Bluff area and fished with worms and Jigs. Green Pumpkin 15" were getting hits but dropping immediately. Tore a couple of worms in half. THey would not hit a Bluegill colored Jig. Should've tied on a Green Pumpkin or Dirty Pumpkin Jig but didn't. Ate a samdwich and waited for dark. Went up to fish brush piles and bluffs by 215 bridge. Fished with big worms and my Black Neon Stand up Jig with a Black Neon Brush Hog because of bright Moon. About 10:30 or 11:00 I started catching them on the Jig. Only caught about a dozen but I had four would be keepers. One 15.25 incher, one 3.5 pounder, one 4 pounder, and one really nice 5+ pounder. Quit about 4:00 A.M. Nice to have the boat running again so I can go after them. See you all on the water.

Kevin Wagoner and Fellow Bass Fishermen, I noticed that the previous Kentucky Bass Topic kind of stopped. I hope that you guys all took the time to read all the posts/website information posted by Straw Hat. If you have it should of cleared up any Wives Tales about this fish. If anyone knows about the rain we have had putting cool water into Stockton at the Son's Creek area please let me know. Thanks, Walcrabass

Straw Hat, I hope that all the fishermen truly read these documents you are posting. Thank you for your comments on the sampling of fish because many people do not realize how difficult it is to obtain accurate information. The 15 year thing is probably on target. I also appreciate your backing on the 7" maturity for the Kentuckies. Not only does this give them more years to spawn because they start spawning smaller but because of their lack of ability to grow long quickly they also stay in the lake longer to hit a 15" length limit. All this boils down to them out producing the Largemouth. As I have posted before this is why their percentage in the lake steadily climbs. I have said it before and I am saying it again.... I wish the spots had their own category in the Fish and Game Code book for our lakes. A 10" length limit and no daily limit would greatly help out the other Bass. I am not accepting the rumor that we as fishermen are too dumb to tell the difference in a Largemouth and a Kentucky either. After all we are definitely expected to tell the difference in Smallmouth and Largemouth in the "Trophy" areas of creeks and rivers. I don't hate these Kentuckies guys. There are just better Bass out there for the conversion of baitfish and other food into quality Bass Fishing. See you all on the lake and good luck fishing for whatever species you are after.

Straw Hat, You are a blessing on these matters as you obviously have a great background in fisheries. I remember having a "Kentucky" discussion a little oveer a year ago and if my memory serves me right you posted some websites from Oklahoma Fish and Game on these Largemouth/Kentucky Hybrids. Maybe you could find them again. I personally caught a Bass a few weeks ago that definitely had characteristics of Largemouth and Kentucky at Stockton. I did not turn the fish in for DNA sampling. I am glad Kevin Wagner has ask the Biologist for Stockton to take part in these discussions as I am sure he is very knowledgable.Maybe he could give us some information on the Kentucky/Largemouth crosses. The information I have read on Kentucky crosses says that the offspring grow slower than either parent species. I am extremely curious as to how our percentages of Kentuckies went from a 15 year average of 11% down to 3% on the Big Sac and 25% down to 6% on the Little Sac. I don't remember a fish kill or anything so it seems like a "Bad" sampling. It would be really weird for something like this to happen as Kentucky populations in most lakes steadily climbs. As for myself and Straw Hat I believe we have about the same opinion on the Kentuckies and that would be that they are a great fish but there are bigger Bass Species we would like to see in greater numbers. I read just recently that the Kentuckies are considered mature at 7". How many Largemouth do we see spawning at 7"? Hopefully this will spark some factual and intelligent replies.

Kevin, Hammertime. and other Bass Fishing Nuts, Went to Stockton Saturday night about 11:00 P.M. Boat trouble again. I think that this trip to the mechanic will solve the problem. We have just about eliminated everything else. Fished around Hawkers Point. Tried B-5, some ledges, some brush, some gravel, some big rock. Fished from 5 feet to 35 feet. Used all size worms, Jigs, Poppers, and other plastics. We caught the same exact number at each location. ZERO!!!!!! Don't know if the lightning around us and ensuing storm was the culprit or that we just don't know what we are doing but we sure got skunked. Got off the water at 3:30 A. M. worn out and bewildered. Didn't even find many fish on the graph. If anybody else went and caught some please write in......maybe I'll pick up some pointers on my fishing skills. Good Luck Guys.

Straw Hat and others, I depend on the Dorsal Fin, The spots down the side, and the Jaw hinge point under the eye. I think that the scales on the bottom part of the 2nd Dorsal fin is a good indicator but with the crosses it may not exist. I have noticed the rough patch on the smaller Largemouth myself. If you go to the Oklahoma Department of Fish and Game on the internet I seem to remember them having a description of the Kentuckies. As you may know Oklahoma is pretty much at war with these Kentuckies as they have done stocking of the Florida Bass and do not want them crossing together. I personally think that our Conservation Department should implement educating the Missouri Fishermen about the characteristics of our three main Black Bass. Maybe then we could get the Kentuckies in a different category. All this talk about fishing is making me want to go after them. Come on Saturday night!!!!!!

Kevin Wagner and Hammertime, I would like some assistance from you guys. I am trying to get an idea of the number of Kentucky Bass in Stockton Lake. Would you guys make a mental note of how many fish you catch that are Largemouth, Smalmouth, and Kentuckies? Remember that the Kentuckies have their top 1st and 2nd Dorsal fin clearly joined together and on the Largemouth it has a prononced dip in between them. Also the Kentuckies have some scales on the base of the second Dorsal fin. The Kentuckies jaw also does not extend past the eye if you draw an imaginary line fron the eye straight downward. What I am finding is that I am catching more and more fish that have the traits of both the Largemouth and the Kentuckies. I just caught one about three weeks ago and phenotypically he looked like a cross. This time of year on the deep Bluffs I don't catch as many Kentuckies unless there is standing timber. The Kentuckies really like that stuff. I think that you will find that a lot of the "short fish" you are catching are Kentuckies. Another thing I would like to say is that Kentuckies are considered mature when they reach 7 inches. This boils down to spawning for more years in a lake before reaching an age where they can be legally taken at our 15" length limit. Thank you and I look forward to your reports.

Hammertime, I like to fish my own Brush Piles but this time of year mine are too shallow. I can maybe fish them towards morning if the fish move up during the night. It is not always the temperature you know that keeps them deep. It is also the boat traffic ( Jet skiers shaving the banks) and that bright sunlight this time of year. After a few hours of calm and darkness they might move in to my piles . This saturday night I plan to fish the cuts in the steep/deep banks. Also the points that have good drop offs next to them. I will start off with 10-12" worms in the evening and switch to 13-15" after dark. Worm weights will be 1/2 to 3/4 oz. I will also be throwing big Stand up Jigs ( 1/2 to 1 oz.) with bulky trailers on them. Maybe even be using paddle tail worms for trailers in the 5 to 6" size. In the event that this does not work I will throw the Stand Up jig Heads with no Skirt and Trick Worms or Zoom Crawdads for trailers. Crawdad Oil on the plastics seems to always help. I don't put it on the skirts because it can gum them up. The brush piles marked by the Missouri Department of Conservation have yielded some pretty good Bass for me but they get "Hammered" (no pun intended) pretty hard. Good Luck Guys.

Mazola/ Straw Hat, Nice to hear that someone is still interested in Flatheads.Many years ago I hunted for them with a passion at Stockton Lake.The last time I fished for them was about 5 years ago and our biggest one that weekend was pictured at Mutton Creek Marina for a long time. Look for long sloping Gravel points with standing Timber.River and Creek arms were always best for me. Towards the dam from CC about 2-4 miles is a good area. This time of year they should be between 15 and 30 foot deep. String your trotline from tree to tree in the direction of the slope. Tie under the water to a tree and go straight down to a large weight. Take the line to the other tree, pull tight, tie on another large weight and come straight up the tree with your line and tie under the water again. By tieing under the water you eliminate a lot of thieves to your catch and also a lot of Bass fishermen cutting your line. I never put more than 5 hooks on a line. If you catch two or three at the same time you'll understand why. Use a gaff to bring up the line and a shorter gaff to bring the line and hooks to the boat. With 30 and 40 pound fish they can run a hook in your hand and literally pull you to a watery grave. My favorite bait was what we called Black Perch. They have a bigger mouth and usually a yellowish belly with tiny black spots. Remember that a Flathead is a huge predator and they seldom bite anything dead. Tie a loop in the line with a huge brass swivel where you want a hook. Set the line about 3 feet from the bottom. Remember that a Flatheads eyes look upward and they literally have "Trails" they travel close to the bottom. They will die quickly on the lines this time of year so be sure to run them every evening and morning. One other thing. If you can keep them alive in a stock tank or something for about a week they will taste better. Hang them up by their heads and cut the tails to let all the blood drain. Good Luck and enjoy those Catfish steaks.

Hammertime, Hope you did better than us. Went last night to try out my boat (Again!!!) It still has problems. Got to fish about four spots north of mile long bridge. Fished the bluffs on the west side, fished the west side of the big island, fished by the Hawkers boat ramp. Fished from 10 to 30 foot deep with Black 1/2 oz. Spinnerbaits, 10 to 15" worms, 1/2 oz. Jigs. Only caught two fish. One good one. Both on worms within three feet of each other. Worms were red and purple. Put in at Hawkers at 7:30 and pulled out by 9:30. I am just not finding any numbers of fish. Kind of goes hand in hand with needing to go to work instead of fishing when you want and where you want for as long as you want so you can get on them. Good Luck Guys.

Thunderin Gobbler, I too believe that there are MORE Big Bass towards the dam end of the lake. But quite honestly I have caught a bunch of 7 to 9 pounders from below Birch Branch, Up Son's Creek, and in the Mutton Creek area. I still say that the size and speed of the bait determines what size of fish you catch especially when the temperature gets really hot. There is just no way that a 12" Bass is going to swallow a big puffey silicone skirted jig with a 4.5" Y-not on it for a trailer as easy as a 5 pounder. I also think that the smaller bass are more content with eating 10 things to get full whereas the bigger bass might prefer just one large item. Just my ideas, doesn't mean I am correct. I usually move or change baits when all I am catching is 13-14 inchers, that gives me more time to concentrate on larger fish and find new spots. Good Luck Guys.

Hammertime, Thanks again for the info. I figured that the fish were in that 30 foot depth by now. I guess you are fishing the Spinnerbaits deep like the worms. Am I correct? As you probably know by now I fish a lot of Jigs. I have found that I can keep a lot of those smaller fish off by fishing big bulky Jigs with big trailers. This gives the bigger fish a better chance of grabbing the bait before one of those smaller warp speed Bass grab it. I also go to 13 to 15" worms( Those Suckers are gettin expensive!!!!). I still catch a good amount of small Bass on them but I think the fish can find them better after dark. Sounds like you like that night bite as well as I do. Beats fishing in the 100+ degree sun and I don't see near as many jet ski's ( NONE THAT IS!!!!!) If you would like to send me a personal message I will see if I am smart enough to retrieve it from the web site. I would be glad to send a fellow night fisherman one of the Jigs I use.Don't know if I am going Saturday night or not. I have had boat and car troubles both this week. Please keep us posted as it is good to hear those Fishin Tales.

Thunderin Gobbler, Sounds like you fished a lot more in the daytime than I did. I have noticed that the night bite has not been real good this year for me. I missed fishing the few weeks when they were killing Spinnerbaits. I will probably start a little earlier this weekend and I can tell you for sure that I wil be fishing more Jigs. I am thinking that if the heat continues I will probably give them a dose of a Bare Stand up head with a good ole Zoom Crawdad. Pumpkin Pepper Dazzle, Bluegill Bandit, and Dirty Pumpkin with some Crawdad Oil. Plastic worms too if they don't bite them in half like last weekend. If you go this week please write in to the forum. I am having a difficult time getting on numbers of fish at night. I am betting that the better numbers are towards the dam.If anybody out there knows something please give us a clue.

Hammertime, Thanks for the spinnerbait sizes. I personally like the 1/2 oz. and heavier if I am going deep or it is windy. I almost always throw a 1/2 Oz. stand up Jig. It seems to give me better "feel" for what is going on. The trip Saturday night was not record breaking. Fished from Mutton down to 1 mile past Birch Branch, Fished up Son's Creek about one mile, Fished in Googer a little bit. Only found one fish willing to bite in the brush piles. All others were on smooth gravel and less than 15 feet deep water. Threw Willow leaf Black Neon Spinnerbait until a little after dark. Threw Black N Blue Spinnerbait with big Colorado after dark. Threw a variety of 10 to 15" plastic worms before and after dark. Mostly Okeechobee, Black Neon, and Dark Purple. Fished until 3:30 A.M. Only caught about 8 fish. Not even a sniff on the Spinnerbaits. Never fished a Jig but wish I had as the fish were a little bit short striking that night. Just wanted to find out about the spinnerbait/worm bite. Had several bites that I am pretty sure were Drum but never hooked one. That seems to happen quite a bit when I am using Crawdad oil on my baits. Once again if I had been using a Jig I probably would have caught one or two. Don't mind eating those Drum either. Good luck Tuesday Night. Please post with some pretty specific information as I will probably go again next Saturday night.

Hammertime you are correct about their vision. You are also correct about the last hour before dark. In that time period if there is some heavy cover in fairly shallow water I go to a topwater noise maker. If I am fishing deeper water I use a Black Neon Stand up Jig with Black Neon Trailer. I also have a couple of strands of red in my Jigs and the head is Black with Red Flake.My Black Neon skirts have a little flash to them as well. You wouldn't believe how well they work in the last 30 minutes before dark. You are the first person I have heard make these same thoughts public. As far as the Black spinnerbaits with one blade go there probably isn't a better night time Spinnerbait. What size do you usually throw? As far as the worm thing goes I usually throw 15" at night. It just gives them "More" to find and "More" to feel. As far as night fishing goes I hope to be at Stockton on Saturday night. Just one more thing........I don't require nearly as much Sun Block Lotion at night.Good Luck everybody.

On the subject of colors.... I believe that the water temperature(thus the temperature of the fish) has a lot to do with it. For example I have noticed that red is a good color when the water gets really hot. It doesn't matter if it is a crankbait, spinnerbait, worm, jig etc. Red works when it is really hot. The color of the water also makes a big difference. For example; Fish try to match their surroundings so they can hide or ambush. Clear water and a light colored bottom almost always mean a light colored fish, baitfish included. We need to take the hint. When the water is chocolate you need to throw something that will make an image in the water. Possibly Red Shad, Black, Blue, Chartruese. I firmly believe that the more senses you appeal to the more fish you catch. With that said then the eyes of the fish are very important to stimulate. One example I can give to show what color or lack of color can acheive when fishing is a recent trip to Stockton. The water was fairly clear and I tied two of the same exact size and color stand up Jigs on two different rods. Both were 1/2 Oz. Bluegill Bandits. One rod had 14 pound Florocarbon and the other had Trilene XL in Clear/Blue Fluorescent. Obviously you could see the Trilene in the water. I caught 22 Bass that day. I would deliberately use both rods in the same spot with the same retrieve. I caught 20 of the Bass on the Florocarbon. Only two on the Trilene. As far as the Green Versus Blue goes I can tell you to use something that shows up in the water.... they can't eat what they can't find. My thoughts are that water temperature and water clarity both influence what color I use. I have to agree that the Black, Dark Purple, Black Neon, and Dark Blue are a favorite after dark. Provided that it is truly dark, not full moon. Electric Blue, Red Shad, and Green/Shad can really show up in the moonlight if the water isn't too muddy.