Walcrabass

Unless I read one of the articles wrong the "hybrids" or "Crosses" or whatever is the correct name for these fish do have the ability to reproduce.

Buzz, I have spent some time reading the sites sent in by "Straw Hat". There are many instances of the Kentucky( Spotted Bass) hugely increasing their numbers (percentage of Black Bass ) in our streams and lakes as well. The thing that really disturbs me is their willingness and success at hybridizing with SMALLMOUTH AND LARGEMOUTH. If you have the time to read what other states are doing to prevent the Kentucky Bass taking over it is very evident that they have just plain declared war on them. Information that I have read on these sites proves to me that they are definitely in direct competition with the Largemouth and the Smallmouth. I also learned that they grow slower than Smallmouth too. Missouri has definitely realized that we have a problem with them because of the implementation of seperate regulations for them on some of the streams. I hope that they expand this to our lakes. I hope that we make some headway because I don't want my grandchildren catching Bass that they cannot distinguish as a particular Bass( because of hybridization) and has a great of trouble reaching 13-15" in length.

Straw Hat, you have really outdone yourself!!! I remember very well when the number/percentage of Kentuckies in Table Rock was noticably increasing. I can remember the length limit being established at 15"(?). I think that the fact that their percentage in the lake grew from 3% to 25% (if I am relaying the information in the article correctly)of the Black Bass population AFTER THE LENGTH LIMIT WAS SET AT THIS POINT makes a very good case that this length is too long for this species. I was surprised at the number of lakes in Oklahoma that have no length limit on Kentuckies and a 15 fish creel limit. That was information I had not heard or read before. I am having difficulty downloading some of the articles you have made available to us. I will try from another computor in a day or two. If you have a good Fisheries Biologist contact who is presently working for the Missouri Department of Conservation I would appreciate it if you would ask them to view all these comments. I think that the posts and replies concerning the Kentuckies and Florida/Northern crosses would be appreciated by him or her. I am asking all Fishermen and particularly Bass Fishermen to please read this wealth of information on these sites. It is very interesting and downright eye opening. Thanks again Straw Hat, you are a true Gentleman and a Scholar!!!!!

Straw Hat, I don't know you but I really appreciate your comments and efforts on this discussion. If the Missouri Department of Conservation would truly try some Florida/Northern crosses in a power plant lake, introduce them on another couple of lakes without restrictions on the Kentuckies, and stock Florida/Northern crosses in yet another lake with different rules for the Kentuckies I would be all for it. I have to say that I may have stepped on the toes of the tournament anglers without realizing it. I suggested the nothing under 16" and only one over 22" slot. We have a lot of anglers who compete in small Bass Tournaments who full well realize that Kentuckies in the 15 to 18" range make up a good portion of their winnings. If we could get these other fish stocked then maybe for now we should just go with the nothing under 16" part. This is not what I feel would be the most beneficial but maybe more agreeable to others. As you know I personally am still in favor of the smaller length and greater creel limit where the Kentucky Bass is concerned. I was aware of the same discussions having been made in years past on this subject but as I said there is a time and a place for everything. I myself am hoping that the time is here for this idea to take hold and prosper. Please send any studies that you may come across to this site as they are hugely helpful.

I agree!!!!It would be great to catch a 10 or 12 pounder in the middle of winter right here in Missouri!!! Please read the articles sent in by Straw Hat as they have a lot of proven information that has been gathered on the Florida/Northern crosses and how well they adapt.

Believe me guys I understand exactly where you are coming from with your comments. The Kentucky Bass are a blast to catch just like any other fish. I just have to think that if one thing increases then another thing is probably going to diminish. I am not asking for the eradication of the Kentucky Bass, only to lessen it. They are just my choice of fish to make way for the next level of fishing to come to Missouri which I believe that we as Missourians are ready for and entitled to have in our waters. If we think back to the White River Flood control lakes we can easily see how we lessened the river Smallmouth fishig that made our state and others so famous. By doing this just think how we hugely increased our fishing for other species. I dare to say that tournament fishing and recreational fishing would not be what it is today if we had not built these reservoirs.My main thrust is still simple, I would really like to see bigger and better Bass in Missouri like other states are enjoying.

I agree with you wholeheartedly Buzz. The Kentucky Bass are a blast to catch. I just would like to see larger and more prolific Bass than what is currently in our lakes. As with all things when one thing increases then something else diminishes. Kentucky Bass are just my choice to lessen, not eradicate. When we built the White River flood control lakes the stream Smallmouth fishing definitely took a nose dive. It was lessened. But look at the fantastic results we achieved for other species. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Kentucky Bass. They are just my choice to help Missouri Bass fishing to the next level.

I think that putting the Florida Strain Bass in the Power plant lakes as you suggested is a great idea. If they did well then maybe we would have a resource to obtain our own Florida/Northern Hybrids from to stock other locations. That probably would cut a lot of expense and red tape. I am not trying to be sarcastic here at all as this might be a great place to start.

I have had another idea creep into my small cerebral sphere. What if I proposed the introduction of a certain Crappie into our lakes that would grow faster, spawn more eggs, have a greater survival rate, get 50 per cent larger, and all we had to do was purchase them from another state and stock them? I would have to guess that virtually 100 per cent of the Crappie enthusiasts would say "Let's Get R Done". Why is it then that we might be getting "Hung Up" concerning the Bass?

Buzz and Eric1978, You guys are exactly right in that there is a time and a place for the Kentucky Bass. Obviously they are a Native species and deserve a place. The way I see it Bass Fishing is at a all time high. The thrust of things today is larger fish. It only makes sense that if there was a decrease of spawning, food consumption, etc.by one species that there would be more for the Bass that were left. I think that sometimes we are resistant to change because of fond memories and just plain old enjoying the past. That ain't all bad either. Here is my point. There are better Bass out there. After reading another article today it is proven that the Florida/Northern Bass Hybrids Females are more successful at spawning as are the pure Floridas. The man who is called "Straw Hat" has put several things to read on this site and I found them fascinating, educational, and true to what I expected from their research. I believe that the Bass Fishermen of Missouri deserve a chance to take a step up with other great Bass fishing states. I found nothing but good in these articles and I encourage everyone to read them.

I would really appreciate you looking into this matter and I appreciate your involvement since you have professional experience in this area. I was not meaning for any of this to be conducted by private citizens,only by the Missouri Department of Conservation. I have also read about our climate being a little cold for the Florida strain Bass which is why I included other Large Varieties. Thank You very much, maybe we can start the ball rolling to make things a little better.

After the reply to send the message about our opinions to MDC I have come up with an idea. The person who writes in as "Straw Hat" has inspired me in the fact that he agreed with my position and outlook concerning the Kentucky Bass in the Post entitled "Missouri Bass". Here is my plan. 1. Buy small fry from the state of Texas who has already proven their Florida Strain Bass( or other large varieties) to be healthy, exhuberent, and prolific. 2. Bring them back to Missouri and grow them into fingerling/stocking size. 3. Introduce them into some of our major impoundments. 4. Put a feasable slot limit on these lakes. One which will not destroy tournament fishing. As I suggested before: Nothing under 16" and only one fish over 22". Implement these until things take off and then adjust accordingly. 5. Put the Kentucky Bass in a category of their own. Increase their creel limit. Lower their length limit. I really like the 11" length myself. Implementing these things would not require the building of new hatcheries. This would save all that expense we talked about. After all , when we restocked Deer in Missouri we didn't build " Deer Farms" ( New Hatcheries for Deer). Instead we simply got some from another state or two and turned them loose where they had habitat and food. Oh yeah, We put a slot limit on them.(meaning no hunting). So there it is... low cost... no building of new hatcheries and waiting for money appropriation and construction time...no stepping on the toes of the Tournament Fishermen...Larger Bass for the state of Missouri( I am not looking for 20 pounders just generally increasing the average size appreciably)... and better consumption of the already available food suppply in our lakes.

I believe that I have an idea what we want in the way of Bass after the previous "Missouri Bass" discussions. A. We all would like to see bigger Bass. B. we don't want steroids or pollution to accomplish our goal. C. we don't think that the Kentucky Bass are the greatest thing since sliced bread. D. We agree that Healthy Bass of a different gene pool would not cause a problem because it would further diversify our own Bass. This is as long as they had been proven to be healthy. E. A slot limit would help the situation. F. Fishermen should be able to tell the difference between the species of Bass we have in our waters. Thank you to everyone for their input. I hope that it has us all thinking in a positive way.

Thanks for the reply. I think that all this information is great. As for the 12" length on Beaver not working I had this thought. If it wsn't working then wouldn't the lake be full of 15" and smaller Kentucky Bass like our lakes? Maybe if the length was set smaller to like 10 or 11" their numbers would be even less. I am thinking back to the 1960's about if it isn't broke don't fix it. I remember a guide on Table rock Lake and his clients catching 52(I Think) Largemouth over 10 pounds in a single year. Granted fishing pressure and other things have changed. I think that is exactly why we need to change our regulations to fit our present time. Concerning the states that have bigger Bass think about this scenario. If we told them to decrease the size of their Bass so that they could have more peaceful fishing or less tourist fisherman I believe their answer would be a great big NO!!! In fact I think they would laugh at us( especially being from Missouri, Arkansas, etc.) Let's give this Kentucky thing some real deep thinking. I would like to see some improvements before my rest home days. Maybe catch and release concerning the Kentucky Bass isn't such a great idea. I would enjoy hearing from others with good comments.

Thanks for your reply all this information is great. I am puzzled though. Since Beaver has a 12" limit on the Kentucky Bass and the Lake is over run with 12" and smaller Kentuckies, then the rule must be working. If it wasn't then the lake would be over run with 15" and smaller Kentucky Bass like our lakes. As far as if it isn't broke then don't fix it I think back to the 1960's. Table Rock was a young lake. Fishing pressure was much less. I remember one guide and his clients catching 52( I think) Largemouth over 10 pounds in a single year. Things have obviously changed. We need different regulations now to compensate for these changes. I don't think that the Anglers that were mentioned from the states that had Big Bass would give up their big fish for more peaceful fishing. In fact I think that Texas, Florida, and California would laugh at us if we asked them. Let's all really think about this Kentucky thing. From what I can see the Lakes that have slot lengths to protect the spawning size Bass have all got us beat. We just need to adjust the length for the different species spawning size.( Like maybe make it small enough that they haven't spawned yet.