Need River Level Help

[fiveweight]

I'll be moving away from Missouri but first want to take one last great trip through the Buffalo, one river I've never done before. I need some help for river levels - levels to watch for on gauges or how much rainfall it will take to make us change our plans.

Here's what we have planned - float Ponca to Carver a week from tomorrow, for 4 days (April 25-28). I know the water level is good right now for floating and decent for fishing, but it can change before next week. We really want to fish, and fly fish if possible but that requires non-muddy water. With some rain in the forecast, how much can the river take before it would be less than ideal to float and fish?

Also, we aren't good at packing light. My canoe is big, but heavy too. We're experienced, but will there be any obstacles we need to watch out for with a heavy load?

Any advice is appreciated.

[delta_queen]

I can't speak to obstacles on that trip as it has been a while for me, but I do recall that having to portage OVER the Ponca low water bridge was a pain in the you know what with camping gear. http://www.buffaloriverandrain.com/ has the most authorative recommened floating levels and current guages - in case you haven't been to that yet. check out the forum here http://ozarkmtnpaddlers.org/forum/ - especially 'River Beta' for float specifics.

[bobber]

i could be wrong , but i think she means the eurbie ford ? because you can't make it down to the ponca bridge with camping gear!.......... the upper is almost class III WATER ? and the river is dropping fast! and unless we do get some rain you better be thinking ( mid river) like carver to woolum to gilbert or tyler bend roads are in bad shape , rangers, with chain saws were out last week cutting out downed trees out of the way . and if we do get rain, the last one was 3 inches. and it was 9 feet on top of the ponca bridge, and 38 ft down river a few hours later . so if you get caught in a flash flood some places are too steep to climb out of, and there is no way you could pull a canoe up high enough? and that rain doesn't have to be falling on (you), for you to be in trouble! if you self shuttle make sure you make a float plan and give it to someone that could start the phone calls on monday morning?.....isn't a bad idea. or at least stop in at an outfitter with your game plan....>>>>> oh, the river beta's.... they come from us! >~~~~ small world out there!

[fiveweight]

i could be wrong , but i think she means the eurbie ford ? because you can't make it down to the ponca bridge with camping gear!.......... the upper is almost class III WATER ? and the river is dropping fast! and unless we do get some rain you better be thinking ( mid river) like carver to woolum to gilbert or tyler bend roads are in bad shape , rangers, with chain saws were out last week cutting out downed trees out of the way . and if we do get rain, the last one was 3 inches. and it was 9 feet on top of the ponca bridge, and 38 ft down river a few hours later . so if you get caught in a flash flood some places are too steep to climb out of, and there is no way you could pull a canoe up high enough? and that rain doesn't have to be falling on (you), for you to be in trouble! if you self shuttle make sure you make a float plan and give it to someone that could start the phone calls on monday morning?.....isn't a bad idea. or at least stop in at an outfitter with your game plan....>>>>> oh, the river beta's.... they come from us! >~~~~ small world out there!

Thanks Deltaqueen. The first link didn't work but the second was quite informative.

Bobber, thanks for the response but I'm a little confused. You say "unless we do get some rain you better be thinking the middle river", but then you warn about getting trapped in a flash flood because the river rises so much with rain. So under what conditions would the upper section be canoeable. And when you say the upper section is class III, do you mean Ponca down for a few miles or above that? Yes, we are using an outfitter to shuttle my car so they maybe can tell me if the river isn't in good condition on the day-of, but the lady there also wasn't real informative when I asked about current conditions so we'll have to use good judgement. I just don't want to drive five hours down and find out we can't go.

[Al Agnew]

The www.buffaloriverandrain.com that delta queen mentioned will be your best place to gage the river levels. But if you're floating from Ponca down, it should probably be toward the lower end of floatable on those gages. There are plenty of tricky places that, at higher levels, would be very difficult with a heavily loaded tandem canoe, and I'd say there would be a significant chance of getting wet and getting your gear wet. At least with lower levels you might drag bottom some, but the current won't be as strong and the river won't be up in the willow strainers.

With higher levels, the middle and lower river flattens out for the most part, while that upper section from Ponca to below Kyles gets bigger waves to go along with the strainers. So if the river is toward the high end of floatable on the gages, you might consider Gilbert to Buffalo Point for a two day trip. Gorgeous scenery. But the flyfishing will be difficult at best if the river is toward the high end of floatable. Basically, no matter WHERE you float it, for flyfishing it just about HAS to somewhere close to normal for this time of year. On the USGS real-time gages, "normal" is denoted on the flow in cubic feet per second graph by the little triangles for each day. Actual flow should be somewhere pretty close to those triangles before I'd try to flyfish it. There's a link to those gages at the top of this message forum.

[delta_queen]

The www.buffaloriverandrain.com that delta queen mentioned will be your best place to gage the river levels. But if you're floating from Ponca down, it should probably be toward the lower end of floatable on those gages. There are plenty of tricky places that, at higher levels, would be very difficult with a heavily loaded tandem canoe, and I'd say there would be a significant chance of getting wet and getting your gear wet. At least with lower levels you might drag bottom some, but the current won't be as strong and the river won't be up in the willow strainers.

With higher levels, the middle and lower river flattens out for the most part, while that upper section from Ponca to below Kyles gets bigger waves to go along with the strainers. So if the river is toward the high end of floatable on the gages, you might consider Gilbert to Buffalo Point for a two day trip. Gorgeous scenery. But the flyfishing will be difficult at best if the river is toward the high end of floatable. Basically, no matter WHERE you float it, for flyfishing it just about HAS to somewhere close to normal for this time of year. On the USGS real-time gages, "normal" is denoted on the flow in cubic feet per second graph by the little triangles for each day. Actual flow should be somewhere pretty close to those triangles before I'd try to flyfish it. There's a link to those gages at the top of this message forum.

Buffaloriver anddrain. com is tricky; they're off and on. Keep checking. I wrote them and they said they don't have budget enough to keep the guages going. They are getting ready to pass the torch to the USGS. Sad Sad becuase it will be far removed from the real keepers. I know you didn't ask my opinion, but if you did, I'd say head to Gilbert Store (an experience in itself), get them to shuttle you up to Carver, then float down to Gilbert and find your truck when you're good and ready.

[bobber]

all of our rivers are primed, and any run-off, or excess water will PUMP IT BACK UP! we had some good rain last night and you should see some rise in the next few hours ...i don't think it was a enough to flood at all. but you need to be aware..... think safe! >>>> and yes the section above the ponca bridge is very playful in white water boats large waves trains and some limestone slides and drops the test is if you can make it through the willow jungle at the start of the run.... i may be on the side of caution, as i'm into my second class for my moving water instruction certification... and i just wanted to be helpful to someone new to class II waters... for the last 4 weekends we have pulled so many people out of the river and gathered there gear , boat, kids, and dogs. it's not funny. and it takes all the fun out of it when your soaking wet, cold, and 6 miles from the take-out a few hours before dark!

[bobber]

just got home from a two day trip, and on the kyle's to ozark section there are a few nasty things to watch for. one being a large tree in a corner that took out almost every renter on friday , you could make it, but you needed to catch the eddy water and spin right in front of the tree, and then continue another was below eurbie ford, large trees all over !!! in a bottle-neck area of the river with fast current that ended up bad if you shot down the wrong side of the rootballs or tree trunks ....about all i can say is to be looking two moves ahead!! and either back paddle like mad , or beach it fast!!!we took a group of 9 on friday of early birds and 34 on sat. the outcome was 40% (swimmers) beer with water conditon being the factors!and it was very cool in the late afternoon ? the put in on sunday at ponca bridge was wall to wall and a line waiting to get into the parking area at 9:30am. on my way home. fishing was slow with a afternoon bite being the most productive time i think it was the warm-up of the water that triggered the bite's but they were few and far between , and deep!.............. hope it helps you?

[fiveweight]

just got home from a two day trip, and on the kyle's to ozark section there are a few nasty things to watch for. one being a large tree in a corner that took out almost every renter on friday , you could make it, but you needed to catch the eddy water and spin right in front of the tree, and then continue another was below eurbie ford, large trees all over !!! in a bottle-neck area of the river with fast current that ended up bad if you shot down the wrong side of the rootballs or tree trunks ....about all i can say is to be looking two moves ahead!! and either back paddle like mad , or beach it fast!!!we took a group of 9 on friday of early birds and 34 on sat. the outcome was 40% (swimmers) beer with water conditon being the factors!and it was very cool in the late afternoon ? the put in on sunday at ponca bridge was wall to wall and a line waiting to get into the parking area at 9:30am. on my way home. fishing was slow with a afternoon bite being the most productive time i think it was the warm-up of the water that triggered the bite's but they were few and far between , and deep!.............. hope it helps you?

Wow, that's great information. I'll make notes to take with us. Was Kyle's to Ozark the entire stretch you floated, or just the notably dangerous section?

Also, the thought just occurred to me: We plan to camp on gravel bars like most other Ozark streams. But are there ample gravel bars to camp on throughout the entire Ponca to Carver section, or does it happen to be hard to find safe high places like on the Eleven Point? I really don't want to camp at designated campgrounds, but don't know what options there are.

[bobber]

friday we were on the water at 10 or so and never saw any canoe campers , but we ran the same section on sat. (a double run)and alot of the good spots to camp had groups on them? so an early start will get you a spot ...that is if the friday camper have moved on! bring your river map so you will have some idea of how far the next bend in the river will be, and you should have a good gravelbar as a rule.. again we are waiting for thunder storms to start up .the river has dropped some 15 to 18 inches since we started this post and 25 inches since sat. a good friend has bought KELLERS KANOES at marble falls just south of dog patch on hwy 7 south . (JESSE JEFFERSON) 870-446-2644 he will be a name and number to stick-away some place our shuttle from ozark to kyle's was less than 3 gallons of gas!!! he picked us up at ozark and took gear and canoe's to kyle's and dropped us off. and we floated back to our camp site at ozark . tell him( painterbob )told you to ask for the "hook-up" deal!..... the deal comes when he has to fill in between runs up or down the road to put ins... times will be 11:00 or after then again he will move your car too if you have the extra set of keys!.... and i get cheaper shuttles for sending folks. it's a win win for all....http://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/code.cgi?Submit=Go&sta=KHRO&state=AR ......andhttp://www.buffaloriver.com/riverlevel.aspx