Native Ultimate 12 / Wilderness Commander 120 Owners?

[RidgeHunter]

I'm in the market for a solo fishing craft. I'm not fond of SOT Kayaks, and a sit inside doesn't seem like the best choice for what I would use it for. (plus I like the gear storage room in canoes and hybrids).

I will mainly be using it for calm flat water, but every once in a while it may see some class II-ish water (Buffalo at reasonable levels, etc.) I've read varying reports about how well the Ultimates and Commanders handle rapids. Some say they are fine, some say they swamp easily. I think the front spray skirt would help that a little. If anyone has paddled either one in moving water, how do they handle? Are they that much worse than say a solo canoe like a Vagabond or Argosy?

I have it pretty much narrowed down to the Ultimate 12, Commander, or a traditional solo like a Vagabond.(but I am open to other suggestions). I'm leaning heavily toward the Ultimate 12 as of now.

The hybrids just seem like the would me much more comfortable than a traditional solo for fishing. How well they handle light whitewater is pretty much my only concern. Some people say lakes only, others say they are just fine. I'd really be out there to fish and/or camp, not paddle...so I won't be seeking out rough water, but it does happen.

[rps]

I have not had my Ultimate in anything resembling fast/tricky water. Can't help you there. In all other respects it is a wonderful boat. Stable, dry, and very comfortable.

[Al Agnew]

The Ultimates and other hybrids are getting a lot of good reviews, but most of the people touting them have experience in kayaks, not solo canoes. To my way of thinking, the biggest advantage to the Ultimates is their stability...stable enough to stand up in flat water. If the ability to stand up and fish is important to you, the Ultimates may be your kind of craft.

What I don't like about them compared to solo canoes:

Weight. They are heavier than a good solo like the Vagabond. (But comparable to kayaks.)

Not enough versatile storage space. With all the molded in features, it leaves less room for camping gear for overnight trips. You can't easily carry multiple fishing rods so that the tips are within the gunwales like you can with a canoe, which is important on the smaller, narrower Ozark streams. (Of course, they are way better than a kayak for space.)

You sit lower than in a canoe, not as good of a vantage point and a little more difficult to exit and enter the craft in shallow water. (But again, better than a kayak.)

With their somewhat "pontoon shaped" bottom, which gives them their stability, they sometimes have a problem in rocks...rock gets wedged in the middle and you can't move sideways off it. They are also harder to move sideways in riffles because of the bottom shape.

The seat is reputed to be extremely comfortable. But with some experimentation, you can figure out a comfortable seating arrangement in a canoe as well.

Just some things to think about. They are certainly nice fishing craft. I too have heard mixed reviews on their worthiness in rapids, but I suspect that they can handle most Ozark streams in normal water levels. As you can see, the only real advantage I can see to them is the ability to stand up easily. For me that's over-rated. I wouldn't want to be standing in one while going down a rocky riffle...I suspect that's a good recipe for getting wet and bruised. But I'll admit it's nice in flat water or if fly-fishing. Bottom line in my opinion...better than kayaks, not as versatile as solo canoes. Others' opinions may vary.

[RidgeHunter]

Well, thanks for the help guys. Al, I've been going back and reading your old posts, you really know what you are talking about. Lots of good information.

I ended up catching a sale on Ultimate 12's, they were 30% off. I couldn't pass up that price, heck I could sell it used and probably break even! I picked one up in sand color. I've only had it out on the local lake for a short bit just to see how it felt, it seems like it will be a very serviceable boat. It's extremely comfortable, I don't see many more boats being this comfortable.

The majority of it's use will be on local lakes and ponds, with a few float trips each year. I think it is well suited for that duty, especially small lakes which will be the majority of the water it sees most likely.

I still have an interest in solo canoes though! I think if I was floating rivers more than non-moving water, that would be my first choice. I would not mind having a solo in the future. One trivial thing a canoe has going for it is the looks department, the traditional look of a nice canoe is awesome. I probably don't fish enough to justify 2-3 boats at this point, but I could lie to myself, right?

I'll give an update on the Ultimate after I use it a few times.