Tippet Knots

[jdavis]

What is the proper way to tie tippet to your leader? I tend to fish off of straight leader so that I don't loose fish on account of a poorly tied knot. Also, Is the improved clinch knot still the go to knot for tying on your fly? Thanks for any help. I just hate getting strikes and then finding that little curled end to my line.

[Brian K. Shaffer]

hey jdavis - a couple words of advice I received years ago from a fellow guide : always cut off the last foot of a leader you just tied on and add 2 feet of tippit. I read somewhere to do that as well. It seems that many of the leaders that come out of production have the most failures in strength just a few inches from the lightest end. I have been doing that for years.. taking a 9ft 5x orvis leader - cutting off the little loop and using a shimazaki leader splice kit to splice leader in and super glue it - then cutting off the last 16 to 12 inches and adding 24-36 inches of the next smaller tippet. If I do not have time or patience for the leader splice with the tool - a nail knot takes just 30 seconds. Often times I can have a leader last half a season with this technique -- unless I go from day fishing a bunch to night fishing at the same times. Then I use the loops and just hate it during the day. I will switch from 10ft 6x for day and 7.5ft 4x for night simply using the loop to loop.

You also asked about knots to fly. I have been using the Pitzen ( or Orvis ) knot for a couple years now. I find it pretty easy once your are trained to tie it. Here's the instructions :

1. Pass the end of the tippet through the eye of the hook, then round the tippet and back through the loop that you have just made

2. Take the tag end and wrap it round the second loop twice.

3. Now lubricate and tighten the knot.

4. Finish by trimming the tag end.

[gonefishin]

What is the best knot to use for attaching the leader to the fly line?

[Brian K. Shaffer]

The nail knot is the obvious first choice, followed by an albright - which is essentially a nail knot over a loop. Use that one only when fishing heavy fresh or saltwater situations. My second choice is the leader spliced thru the fly line. Check the Tiemco Shimazaki leader splice instructions below :

The Tiemco Shimazaki Leader Splicer is a great assisting tool for you to get the leader right through the center of the flyline tip with ease. Simply place the flyline along the groove on the inside and push the needlepoint straight in the line tip. The transparency of the tool allows you to see through how you are inserting the needle. Instructions included.

How to use it :

In the Splicer you have two different grooves : wide and narrow. For 10 weight line or lighter use the narrow groove.

1) Put the needlepoint 2 to 3mm or one tenth of an inch in the center of the line tip(1A) and place it in the groove(1B)

2) Close the splicer. While holding it tight to keep the line firmly in place, push the needlepoint straight in the line tip. Push further deep until you see the hole in the needle show out of the line (2) .

3) Keeping the needle in the line, insert the leader tippet through the needle hole by about 5 cm or 2 inches (3A) . Draw the needle completely out of the line. You will now see the line/tippet as in (3B) with a short tippet out of the line tip.

4) Draw the leader all the way through the line tip leaving only a required length of the butt section and tie it around the line by nail knot or uni knot (4) .

LINK for tippit to fly knots - here

I believe the above link shows the trilene - which I use only for big flies and heavy tippits.

The Orvis / Improved Clinch / Palomar / Uni -- those are what I use given fish and conditions.

Try that Orvis knot with a piece of heavy mono or string. It makes one strong knot to your fly!

best fishes - Brian

[gonefishin]

I have been using a nail knot to attach but thought mayber there was a better system. I guess there is in the splicer you posete. Where do I get one of those? Cost?

I generally use an improved clinch or a Stren knot to tie the fly to my tippet. I would like to know more about putting leaders together.

Does vanish work well for leader/tippet material? Is it to dense to use with dries?

[Brian K. Shaffer]

The Shimazaki tool isnt cheap.. I think its $25.. but it works like crazy. I have seen a few articles in FlyFisherman about doing viturally the same thing.. using a simple needle (al calucci). But - I like the ease of this tool.. and making the expensive tool work like its intended is kind of fun for a gearhead type like me.

I do use the simple 5 wrap nail knot most often.. but if you do not tie it correctly, sliding the knot tight and clean... you will soak up more water into the core and also run risks of catching it in the tip top. I do use Knot Sense by Loon when I am finished with all nail knots.. just to coat the knot with a glue that will help prevent tip sink in the future. That stuff cures in seconds too.

The loop to loop by Orvis was a gimmick at first if you ask me. The old loops were bulky and heavy and sank the tip really quickly - even when new. I do know they have since improved the design by soaking the braided mono section in floatant. The all new design of a loop that is fly line coated by Rio has made me start using them once again. I like those.. but flylines aint cheap.

This new S/A L2L connection is a strange affair.. I've used 'em.. I first liked it while rigging but disliked it very much after landing a few fish on a 15ft leader / tippet rig. The little plastic thingie doesnt slip thru the tip top well and it sinks over time. I have heard that they have improved the design and even added strike indicators to the leader itself.. meaning you do not have to add anything extra - just clip on, clip off - tie some extra tippet and fish. But, if you ask me, the tried and true nail knot is the best attachment of leader to fly line.

Leader tie kits are out there - and I suggest everyone buy one - but leave it indoors intact at your house. DO NOT take any of the leader spools out and put them in your vest.. or you ruin the idea. DO use the model leader formulas they provide and tweak them as you see fit. Just have fun saving money. There is a ton of money to save on building your own leaders.

Vanish to me is just not tippet material. It is intended for another purpose, fishing a spinning or bait casting setup. Therefore it is not being upheld to really high standards like Orvis or S/A or Umpqua quality. I choose real tippet.. made by fly fishing companies. Thats just me though.. I fish a lot and wish to take no chances.

Also - make your leaders with the least knots possible. The George Harvey is a great formula to start with.. only 2 knots on your leaders... cause once you start tying knots.. it gets to be noticable as you land fish and get new debris attached to your business end of fishing more often.

best fishes - Brian

[Wayne SW/MO]

Brian did you get your splice tool locally?

"The George Harvey is a great formula to start with.. only 2 knots on your leaders"

Are you referring to the 60/20/20?

[Bill Butts]

Jbird,

Pay close attention to what Brian is explaining, it's right on the mark.

He's taking right through Flyfishing 101.

You will find all kinds of funky loop to loop and loop splice techniques out there, but my firm belief is that about everything else is a stepping stone of frustration until you take the time to master the needle nail knot connection. It's not hard at all. Just takes some practice.

Take an old fly line (or ask for a few feet of it from a shop) and practice 10-15 of them with good light (and magnifying glasses for those it applies to, like me) at home. You'll be doing them for your buddies in no time.

There is another splice kit designed by Dave Whitlock that is also very good, but different than what Brian showed. Dave's kit also provides you with the stuff to do knotless connections from leader to fly line which are sometimes great for lines up to a 6 wt. Very smooth.

BTW, Brian~

I have a technique for doing needle nail knots from backing to fly line that is very slick.

Are you familiar with it?

I've been doing it for over 25 years and rarely see anyone that knows it.

Let me know if you'd like to see it sometime.

BB

[jdavis]

Butts, You mentioned the lesser fly line to leader connections being frustrating. Are you refering to the way they cast? As Brian mentioned, I often go from fishing a 3x leader at night to 6x the next trip. So I have always used the loop to loop connection.

[Bill Butts]

Butts, You mentioned the lesser fly line to leader connections being frustrating. Are you refering to the way they cast? As Brian mentioned, I often go from fishing a 3x leader at night to 6x the next trip. So I have always used the loop to loop connection.

jdavis~

What I was primarily referring to about loops being "stepping stones of frustration" is that many novice fly fishers are shown and told that the loop to loop connection is THE way to make line-to-leader connections.

What loop connections are, for the most part, is convenient. Convenient for novices to change a fouled up and wind knot-laden leader, and convenient for experienced fly fishers to change out types of leaders on the same line for different fishing conditions, as both you and Brian referred.

For Novices learning to cast properly (assuming trout fishing in this e.g.) a line/leader set-up with a more conventional smoother transition connection is better. The loop-to-loop connection in that scenario adds weight that changes the technical dynamics of the cast (slightly) and introduces a greater possibility for an interruption in the cast if the line comes in contact with the looped connection while casting. I've seen this countless times at fly shops that have demo lines/leaders for casting demo rods.

I realize not all fly fishers have multiple rods/reels in different sizes, but about every fisher I know that fishes at Taney uses a size or two heavier rod/line outfit for night fishing. Personally, I usually use a medium action 4 wt rod for most daytime fishing, at Taney, but a fast action 5 or 6 for night fishing with much bigger flies and shorter, stronger leaders.

When you fish with long leaders on light rods, generally you want to cast a very tight loop especially if there is any wind. Loops tend to interfere more often when casting tighter loops than open loops. If you are fishing shorter leaders, bigger flies, and heavier lines, generally you should open up your casting loop which reduces the odds of loops interfering with your cast.

I've not heard any testimonies from folks who have used the new Rio line with a built-in coated loop (I think available on their Grand and Nymph lines). That coating seems to make more sense if you really NEED to utilize a loop system.