Mutton Creek Cove

[Thompson Fishing Guide Service]

Ok, here's the long awaited dispo from the Corps. According to Tom Long, Army Corps of Engineers Operations Manager for Stockton Lake, marinas do have the right to restrict fishing on the docks, even when it involves boaters. He said that the marina's lease allows them to do this. When asked if leases were available for the public to see, he stated that would only come as a result of a request under the Freedom of Information Act. According to the Missouri State Water Patrol (of the 5 people I spoke with, none agreed to be named), there is no state law that prohibits this, therefore, the water patrol will not enforce it. According to Tom Long, the Corps Ranger would be the one to issue citations for trespassing or interfering with a lawful order.

I did speak with a water patrol officer who offered this example: if you put a deer stand up on public land, you would have no expectation of privacy and no right to restrict people from your deer stand. If a person came and sat under the tree where you put your deer stand, there would be nothing that you could do about it. But what kind of person would do this anyway? His take on it was the Golden Rule/common courtesy way of thinking. He did mention though, that out of curiosity, he read some of the leases and was surprised to see that they are all different with regards to the amount of land and water coverage. I guess we'll never know since it seems getting a copy of the leases would be akin to reinventing the wheel.

[gonefishin]

I understand the restriction of fishing from the docks but I sure don't understand the restriction of fishing from a boat near the docks. Does this mean that every dock on Stockton Lake has a 200' no fishing zone around it??? Does this also include every dock on every public lake in the state? At what point does the 200' rule start? Is it 200' when the dock is at the high water mark or 200' at the low water mark?

People who are not willing to go on record in citing the leases are highly suspect of not knowing what they are talking about. Further the leases are on public property and therefore should be available for public inspection.

I am with hooked, Mutton Creek will be getting none of my business. Also I will be writing a letter to the corp about this.

[Thompson Fishing Guide Service]

To clarify: the Missouri State Water Patrol was the agency where I talked to five people. No one was willing to have their name attached to the dispo that the water patrol would not enforce the no fishing law. The water patrol officer I spoke to said (IN HIS PERSONAL OPINION) that it was an inherent problem in the Corps leases that the actual area of the lease was not well defined, and that the leases vary widely from lake to lake and marina to marina.

Tom Long, the Operations Manger of the U.S.A.C.E. Stockton Lake Project Office was the one who said leases would only be produced to the public under a request under the Freedom of Information Act. So I guess we'll be finding out how to do that.

US Army Corps of Engineers

Stockton Project Office

Operations Manager Tom Long

16435 E. Stockton Lake Drive

Stockton, MO 65785-9471

417-276-3113

[J.E.]

State Park also has signs at the ramp and the entrance to the cove stating no fishing. I called Water Patrol last year from the ramp and received the same answer. The marina operator could call them however, they would not enforce the no fishing signs. This has been a big issue for a couple of years with the marina operators and has been banged around Jeff City for some time. I wonder if Tom Long will provide a copy of the "law" excluding fishing in the posted areas?

[Hooked]

Interesting... I think this explains why the Marina threatens to call the water patrol but never does.

To put it simple. I don't see a problem with a bass/crappie fisherman fishing from his boat around or near the docks. Now if that fisherman gets out of the boat and on the dock then they traspassing.

I don't see why someone leasing a slip would get so upset over someone throwing his/her lure down the side of a dock while fishing. Where is the harm. The kid from the Mutton marina actually threatened to through rocks at those people and was actaully looking for rocks to through.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Gonefishin said....

"I understand the restriction of fishing from the docks but I sure don't understand the restriction of fishing from a boat near the docks. Does this mean that every dock on Stockton Lake has a 200' no fishing zone around it??? Does this also include every dock on every public lake in the state? At what point does the 200' rule start? Is it 200' when the dock is at the high water mark or 200' at the low water mark?"

I think that is a good question. I always just assumed that it was from the edge of the dock. I never thought it was from the bank. How do they measure it?

I'll add just a little to stir the pot. My dad has a dock on Grand Lake. We have had numerous people fish around it over the years. Most are very courteous and do not fish there if we are fishing. Some will fish the opposite side. I don't have a problem with that. I don't mind people fishing around the dock if we are not. A dock should be treated with the same respect and courtesy as if it were a boat.

My dad had a run in with a fisherman in a boat at the dock, which is a pretty rare event, a couple of weeks ago. Dad was crappie fishing off the back side of the dock when a boat came up and started throwing in where dad was. Dad said "I'm sorry that I'm in your way." and the man in the boat responded "I'll fish anywhere I Gxx Dxxx want to"

Well, a few more words were lobbed back and forth between the two and then the boat left. I sure do wish I would have been there!!

Now that with that being said, I do view private docks differently than I do Marina's which in my book are a form of public fishing. But I wouldn't fish in the vicinity of someone fishing off of a marina dock.

Chief Grey Bear

[Thompson Fishing Guide Service]

So here's another question. Since we know the MO State Water Patrol isn't going to enforce no fishing around marina docks, say for example the Army Corps ranger gets called to a reported trespassing situation on marina boat docks with no disturbance involved (hard to imagine, but let's say for the sake of argument it's a clean dispute over trespass with no physical or verbal trouble). Does the ranger have a copy of the marina lease or does he just go on what the marina owner says? If the marina leases are all different (according to my water patrol guy), how is the public to know what is lawful and what is not? I can hang sign out that says no hunting or fishing, but if I don't own or have control of that land/water, it doesn't mean a thing.

I have to tell you, it is curious to me that no one wants to hang their hat on a firm dispo with this, except for one man with the Corps who basically says it is this way cause I told you it's this way. I, for one, would like some confirmation. For the sake of curiosity, we'll be pursuing this matter with Jefferson City. As I told everyone I spoke with from the patrol and the Corps, it has come down to the point of the matter. It's able to be confirmed or it's not.

[bojack]

one of the other sites i communicate with was talking about this same subject awhile back and several people said that the corp. or water patrol couldn't do anything about fishing within so-many feet of the dock so the dock owner had to call the sheriff and let him deal with the problem. seems to me that they were issued a ticket but i don't think it held up in court. osage bluff aon truman lake is no fishing within 50ft. of the dock. good luck guys.