Casting Tips from Lefty Kreh

[Bill Butts]

Greetings Folks~

Below is a link to the MidCurrent website that has a new article by Lefty Kreh that is very good.

The article is advice on curing "tailing loops", one of the most common casting flaws.

http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/techniq...ling_loops.aspx

Perhaps if this is confusing, after you physically attempt his tips, we can help each other with any lingering difficulties or frustrations.

Casting is certainly one of those topics that "a picture/video is worth a gillion words". Very difficult when using only words.

Good Casting!!

[Brian Wise]

The only thing I don't like about Lefty's wording is the "when the rod tip speeds up and stops in a straight path." In good teaching you teach to accelerate the rod in a "straight line path" a straight line path throws the most efficient loops....period. To a newer student what Lefty says may be a little confusing because you need to move the rod in a straight line path to get a good loop but....see where I'm going?

Sure if the tip travels without desending on either cast (i.e. a perfect straight rod tip path) it is going to give you problems, but how many people cast with a perfect rod tip path.

Am I reading him correctly when I say that I can show you a tailing loop with horrible tracking (swinging the rod tip out or in during the stroke) to prove the rod tip doesn't have to be straight for a tailing loop or am I reading too much into his "straight rod tip path?"

Don't you love these conversations, I'm such a nerd.

Brian

[Fox Statler]

Personally, I think that casting is the least important part of fly fishing. Rod manufactures and casting buffs want us to think other wise though. Making long cast lose you more fish and scares more fish than you catch. Accuracy is of little importance because fish predators are territorial and hunt a large area not just one stickup or lilly pad or rock. Most poor cast produce slack line and slack produces a better drag free drift. I think the best cast is of moderate length followed by good line handling techniques. Like I said its what I personally think.

[Brian Wise]

Oh Fox, We haven't even started a distance casting topic yet. But any caster I know that can throw 100 feet, with regular trout gear, will not be throwing that at fish, I guarantee it.

I agree to a certain point with you though. I a lot of Missouri fishing a good roll cast is all you need. But the bigger waters(and the smaller waters for that matter) I can't imagine how having a good cast couldn't help you.

As far as accuracy....do you ever throw a dry fly, or sight fish, or need to hit a certain seam, eddy, or a certain spot in general??

Brian

[Bill Butts]

Brian,

Written casting advice is just something I don't even like to discuss because it is so confusing.

Let's talk about in-person coaching:

Lefty and only a few others I seen have the ability to duplicate the incorrect stroke/loop of a student and then show them the correct technique and help them duplicate it properly. Of course, with Lefty you get a dose of humor in the process.

A great caster doesn't necessarily make a great coach, either, but I have seen some just above average casters do very well at coaching. Communication.

Fox,

Your statement about casting ability being overrated surprises me especially since you've done so much guiding and have seen many horrible casters. I respectfully disagree when you say it is the least important aspect of flyfishing.

It doesn't matter how much knowledge about catching the fish you have, how great your perfectly tied minnow or hatch matching flies are, or the quality and price of the tackle and gear you have, if you can't make the appropriate cast needed for a specific condition, whether 30 feet or 80 feet, how in the world would you expect to consistently catch fish?

I would agree that great distance casting is overrated since few fishing situations actually demand it. Better to be able to cast accurately in short to medium distances, including roll casts, in very windy conditions as well as ideal conditions.

I do believe very strongly that a very significant % of manufacturers under-rate their rods with too light a line ratings. This has been a disservice to the flyfishing consumer for many years. Of course, within a single line size there are intentionally created different characteristics that cause the rod to perform differently. This complicates the issue, and really makes an individual more dependent on a reputable dealer that knows the differences, or a trusted friend that does.

Like you said, that's my opinion. Like noses, we all have one.

[Fox Statler]

I build extremely long distance casting rods with Fuji T1 single foot spinning guides. It is not uncommon for me to put over $250 worth of guides on a rod. I do this not for the long distance cast but because the rods cast the moderate and short distances so much easier.

I don't fish drys other than the occassional popping bug. If the river is covered up with Light Cahills, I would rather and do fish the nymph instead. As I said I don't consider accuracy as being important. In dead-drifting you make the cast PAST where you want to fish, then while mending the line you drag the nymph into the position you want to fish. Getting the position and the right mend is much more important than where the fly landed. I often power cast the fly much too hard for the cast because I want the line to straighten then pop back before landing on the water. This will put nice "S" curves in your line letting the nymph drift drag free as it travels downstream away from you. I also do air mends before the line lands on the water. I also force the tippet over when using 20 foot plus tippets. All of these tactics destroy your accuracy, but catch lots of fish. As I also said, if a fish only ate bugs that landed by only one object they would starve to death. That is why we wait after casting a popping bug, we give the bass or sunfish time to find it. Many important things happen before we raise the fly from the water, but even more important things happen after the fly hits the water. I am a firm believer that the fly landing downstream of the indicator is the most important thing that you can do when dead-drifting. I also believe that this simple tactic is just as important when fishing a dry or a popping bug. I also believe that casting right on top of a fish more often scares them than catches them.

I guided a boy once that cast his line with his hand like a lasso, then picked up the rod and out fished everyone from that point on. I have caught more big fish using a walking mend technique than any other method (make a cast, mend, and walk with it as it travels downstream).

These are my observations after guiding as long as I have, but its still just my opinon.

[Guest flyfishBDS]

in many ways i agree with you fox, i'd just narrow it a little more.

in many types of nymph fishing acuracy of your drift and getting a correct drift is way more important that the cast per say.

but in terms of a broader fly fishing experience, getting a decent cast can mean a lot more fun, extra distance work more water in streamer fishing, throwing bigger flies for stripers, the salt etc.

but for most of the nymphing around these waters casting is less important.

I'd still be encouraging people to learn to cast correctly however, so they can have more time fishing/less time unpicking wind knots etc. Similarly though i spend a lot of time trying to teach people to cut back their false casting _ or in some cases excessive cassting.

Most of my clients can drift twice as far as they can cast anyway.

The "raise the rod tip" to pull the the indicator back into the correct line of drift, also works extremely well for dry fly fishing _ learnt it on the Henrys Fork, and use it a lot midging here. At home, the style of dry fly placement was much more critical _ land the fly in the trout's window would most of the time result in a take. Here as Fox says it spooks more trout than it yields.

There's more than one way to skin a cat as they say.

But at the end of the day the more skills you have in your vest the better equipped you will be to tackle different situations

Cheers Steve

[Bill Butts]

Steve and Fox~

Much of what you have both addressed has dealt with nymph fishing.

I suppose that would mostly be trout, smallmouth and some panfish.

Related to nymph fishing, I don't disagree with most of what you are saying.

Fox, you mentioned tippets up to 20' long. I haven't heard anyone talk about super-long tippets for maybe 20 years, when my old friend Hal Janssen, a very well known and knowledgeable trout fisherman from nothern CA used to promote very long leaders and tippets mostly for nymph fishing.

Let's get away from nymph fishing at short to medium distances for a minute.

If you had a client streamer fishing on a good size river for trout or smallmouth, or fishing for Stripers/Hybrids/Whites on a river or lake (or other saltwater environment scenarios) and casts of 50 to 60 feet or longer were consistently necessary, what do you do if your client/friend/uncle can't cast more than 35 to 40 feet and you can't do anything to get them any closer?

Is there a substitute for making the proper cast, now?

I've fished with friends in many situations like this, and the reality almost always is that they just don't catch as many fish. Sometimes, very few if any.

There are thousands of fly fishermen that fish in similar scenarios in both fresh and saltwater.

It would seem these folks would either have to get some help to learn to make the casts or give up in frustration and go back to a spinning/casting rod.

[Fox Statler]

Butts,

Now you have described a situation that makes casting important because of the limitations you choose to fish. I think that the spinning rod would be the more successful rig in this case. The line is less visible, it cast longer distances with less effort, and the flies used are borderline fly-spin fishing equipment. So I believe the spinning rig has a definite advantage.

Because the flies that I create are often borderline fly-spin patterns (Anatomically Correct Minnows, Sculpins, Mudbugs, Willow Cats, Whiskered Worms, William's Hades Wiggler, Spinner'd Minners and others) and I recognize that there are limitations to fly fishing, I am not ashamed of suggesting using a spin rig. I receive lots of emails and questions from ultra-ultralight spin fishermen and there are lots of them that share the same ethics, concerns, and such as the flyfishing community does.

I am not a flyfishing snob (and I am not suggesting that you are at all) but flyfishing equipment is not the most productive rig in some situations. My statement, "The cast is not the most important part of flyfishing", was talking in general terms about the entire flyfishing sport.

I have advocated long leaders for over 20 years because it gives the angler the option of how the leader turns over, it moves the fly line away from the fish and allows the angler to successfully use a lighter tippet . I often use 5 - 7 feet of 8X tippet when nymph fishing with my 1 and 2 weight rods, and 7X with my 3 weight wind rod.

[Guest flyfishBDS]

I agree with you too Butts I was talking about nymphs, but you'll notice my disclaimers for streamers salt etc. And I mentioned that the more skills the more fly fishing situations you can achieve. But I still reckon you can catch plenty of trout without casting well. I did it for my first 6years of FF _ had to relearn how to cast properly and if you look around rivers across the US most FF don't cast well _ simply because they spend more time fishing than casting practice and the majorty of ff would cast less than once a month.

I remember a quote from golfers that you needed to do 2 18s a week to really improve. Casting is like that unless your a natural genius. If you want to be a Rajeff or a Woods is way more than that.

Can you catch more fish/ fish more situations yep absolutely. But are a lot of fish catching types out there who "technically" aren't good casters. Some want to learn and I enjoy helping them with a double haul or reach casts, etc etc. Others don't really care that much and are just happy the way they are.

Others can really cast better than me for me that is very cool to watch. Finally there are those who are happy with 40y casts. They are all FF having fun, and that is what really counts.

Cheers