SilverMallard

And I'm not arguing in favor of the chicken farm near Roaring River, either. I'm just taking the opportunity to say, "Yeah, but..." and point out some things we ALL have a LOT MORE control over.

... :ph34r: ...

The biggest piece of the conservation puzzle is education. Think about this: what is the damage to the James River (thus TRL) if one person 20 miles upstream dumps his waste motor oil in the storm drain at the end of his driveway? NONE. The James can handle that. Ecosystems are self-cleaning. But there are almost 1/2 million people living upstream from Galena. If 1% of them dump their waste motor oil from an oil change in the storm drain (all of which go directly into our surface water without treatment), that is 5,000 people X 6 quarts of oil = 30,000 quarts of oil, or over 7,000 gallons. 7,000 gallons is roughly 1,700 barrels of oil. Multiply that time 4 times/year (every 3,000 miles) and you have 28,000 gallons or 6,800 barrels of waste oil flowing down the James River every year. And that's from 1 out of 100 people not disposing of their waste motor oil properly. What do you suppose that number REALLY is? And that is only ONE of the things we can all do to make a difference. I recently learned that studies are showing that the vast majority of Americans are not even aware that the storm drains run into surface water without treatment. They've never considered it. So the James River Basin Partnership is working with the communities along the James to put a sign on every single storm drain that says "This drain empties into the James River, Finley River, Wilson's Creek, etc." Once upon a time, the Ozarks was able to regulate the human impacts to our waters. But there are a few million more people living in White River watershed today than there were just 30 years ago. We are also learning that agri-pollution is not nearly as big of a piece of the problem as is urban/suburban non-point source pollution like over-fertilized lawns/parks/golf courses, chemicals being dumped down storm drains, and poor storm water drainage (meets EPA standards, but those are inadequate). And since ag practices are usually done out of economic necessity and they produce stuff we all need to survive, I'm just saying perhaps we should focus a bit more attention on the totally unnecessary stuff most of do: over-fertilizing our lawns, playing golf, improperly disposing of household and automotive chemicals, and running highly polluting and inefficient 2-stroke outboards on our recreational watercraft. It's really easy to point the finger at farmers, other towns upstream, or any other form of "the other guy." But a recent study from MU and Mo DNR found that 80% of Mo septic tanks are in a failing state of operation. And I still see an overwhelming majority of 2-stroke outboards on the water.

Pretty cool! I'm doing my fair share.

People really should be more careful who they give moderator priveleges to. The person in question who is doing that to Moose over on FFAM has been tossed off of at least one BBS as a moderator for abuse and user agreement violations. And he's deleting about 90% of everything Moose posts over there...and the guy owns a major lodge on the White. All started over him trying to thank some guides for their help with his TV show. Sad.

Yes, MsDucky, it is worth mentioning that any site owner has the RIGHT to edit or censor whatever they wish. These sites are private property. If I don't want you to drive my car, it is my right not to lend it to you. If you say or do something while riding in my car that I do not want to tolerate, I am within my rights to pull over and leave you standing on the curb. However, it is NOT always WISE for them to exercise their rights.

I got news for you fellas, a trout hatchery IS a nutrient-loading point source of pollution. They're pretty heavily regulated and monitored, but it's still true. The key isn't the chicken farm or the treatment plant or the golf course or the septic tank or the subdivision or the hatchery. The key is the pollution they are allowed to discharge and/or runoff. We cannot stop development. That will never work. BUT we MUST get a LOT better about restricting allowable pollution. And most of us need to start AT HOME and then move out as we get control of our own backyards. How often do you pump your septic tank? Do you have it monitored annually? Do you know what the acceptable and recommended standards are? Do you over-fertilize your lawn? Do you wash your car with non-biodegradable soap? Do you change your own oil? How do you dispose of the waste oil? Household cleaners? Are you running a 4-stroke or 2-stroke outboard? Do you sanitize your waders and boots before heading to different stream? When we do ALL of these things religiously, then we probably don't need to worry about the "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones" thing. Food for thought.

I'm just going to answer your questions factually as I see it. 1. It happens a LOT on FAOL. They view their forums as "theirs" and as an extension of the on-line magazine, which is the majority of their site's content. And they edit it like a magazine. That is inappropriate for a discussion forum in my opinion. It has happened to me with regard to answering questions about William Joseph gear. JC has an "issue" with WJ based purely on the fact that they have not agreed to sponsor the site...although they were interested in doing so until he torqued them off. Interestingly, he doesn't treat Orvis or Bass Pro this way. And they aren't sponsors either. 2. I have seen this sort of thing on John's site before, but not much. And I have never had any interraction with John that would make me think he supports that sort of thing. Quite the opposite. But others who participate heavily in the site seem to try to enforce a sort of cliquishness that is quite unflattering to themselves. I have seen them try to suppress info about people they consider their professional "competitors" and I have seen them outright attack people for thinking outside the box just a bit, ie. Fox Statler on Minimum Flow. 3. Among fly-fishing sites, these are the only two examples of this sort of thing I can think of. 4. Phil takes a VERY high-minded and principled approach to moderating his site that some might think is sometimes not in his own business interests vis a vis Lilley's Landing or his fly shop. It takes integrity and character to take some financial risk for the sake of values. And I admire him for doing so...many, many times in every venue in which I have interracted with or observed him over the years. I will also add that Phil is one of the most tolerant religious conservatives I have met in recent years. He has no problem with people posting alternative viewpoints along those lines right here on his own forums. So I don't think anyone has anything to worry about here. The key is confidence. When you know you're competitive and why you do and believe what you do and believe, other options and viewpoints are not threatening to you. Intolerant people lack confidence in themselves.

I don't know how any of you guys got the idea that I think too many fish are being taken out of the TMZ on Taney. Where do you get this stuff? I also happen to think not enough are being taken out. But the slot is the slot for a reason. The violations are a matter of public record. They make the local paper. Most people pretty much play by the rules. On a holiday weekend, writing a few dozen tickets for violations of fishing regs on upper Taney is easy, but it is still only a small % of the people fishing there. And, FYI, posting a contradiction to someone's firsthand report and then crying foul when they defend what they said with reason and facts is childish and intellectually dishonest. If you want to argue, don't start whining cuz you got beat by facts and logic. One does not need cabin fever to find that mildly annoying.

An Impaired Waters designation is EPA talk for "uh-oh, that ain't good. We better start figuring out how to fix this." It is a very broad classification that is used for a whole host of water quality problems. It basically means one or more of those problem areas are worse than is "acceptable."

Mine was the open-face spinning variety with the telescopic rod. Not very cheap, either. It was a gift from my brother. I also had a Zebco Omega when I was a kid. I had it for quite awhile, but it had a penchant for tangling line and thus hanging up.

Well said, Rich!

Years and years ago, I bought one for just that purpose...keep in the truck just in case. After about a year, I had occassion to use it to fish a little creek in a remote canyon in CO for Brook Trout. Pristine...not even another car on the highway. I broke it out and started fishing. After about 10 minutes, the reel fell apart.

Well, dude, you're entitled to your opinion. But I lived in Branson from 1998 until Sept 2006. And I fished that stretch of water a LOT. And I know the game wardens, just don't "spot" them. I strongly suspect my 30-90 days of fishing the Trophy Management Zone on upper Taneycomo per year for the past 8 years...or 240-720 days...has probably given me a bit better of an idea what goes on there and what doesn't than most. There are a FEW guys here who spend more time on that water than I do. But not many! And they will tell you the same thing if they are honest. Phil can explain it to you. So can Leonard. They both live there and would be the two guys on this forum that come to mind off the top of my head who have spent more time on the upper end of Taney than I have during the past 8 years.

In a fishery managed as a put-n-take operation, YES...people keeping fish is important. This is especially true on Taneycomo, where stocking levels are WAY too high to be sustained by the acquaculture. You end up with a whole bunch of little bitty starving trout if people don't remove most of the stocked fish. Stocking at Taney is based on FISHING PRESSURE and TYPICAL HARVEST LEVELS, not on what the fishery can naturally sustain. That's what makes a put-n-take operation and put-n-take operation...like an upland bird hunting preserve.

I also keep trout from stocked waters on occassion. And I have no problem keeping common panfish. I do not keep wild trout or smallmouth bass. Most of the fly anglers on upper Taney release the vast majority of what they catch. During the warmer months, you will see a LOT of spin-fishermen keeping trout on upper Taney (by percentage). Every holiday weekend during the warmer season that I have been there I have seen and/or heard from the agents that they have issued an average of about a dozen limit/possession and methods (usually bait) tickets per day in the Trophy Zone on Taney. And, yes, I have seen guys with fly rods during those times get tickets more than once. Watched one group of about 5 guys carry a clear plastic garbage bag full of trout inside the slot to their truck in the main parking lot under the watchful eye of a game warden who was sitting in his truck in the middle of the parking lot in plain view. DUH!

Here's a link from a US Army MWR fishing facility in Germany. Note the last paragraph with the asterisk. http://www.ansbach.army.mil/sites/directorates/lake.asp And this from another military family support website. It's an in-depth explanation of the process and requirements and best ways to go about doing it. http://www.oconus.com/Main/eArticle.asp?195 Note: when this article talks about the 90-day permit based on a translated US fishing license and supporting docs, it says it is "cheaper." That is not the case if you consider: 1. Cost of translation and notorization of an official document averages about $125. It has to be done via "official" diplomatic channels using authorized translators and notaries. 2. License is only good for 90 days. So $28 every 90-days vs. $22 Euro every year. If you don't need an annual license, then it MIGHT still be a bit cheaper. Also, note that the R&G clubs on US military bases offer the required training course and exam IN ENGLISH. If you don't go through them, the course is in GERMAN. And your German better be pretty good if you want to pass the test. "Passing" in Germany means 75-80% right answers on tests...at least! Finally, the course is GREAT. I think all American anglers should have to take a very similar course before getting a license. It makes for educated, responsible anglers. And that makes for a more enjoyable and rewarding experience for everyone.

Cool, Jason. That's why I posted a "new member intros" thread on the forum in the MySpace group.

You asked about Taney. MO trout fishing in general is plagued with a "trout guts" ethic. It is quite common to see folks catch a quick limit of stocked trout and clean the fish right there where they fish...tossing the offal into the stream. Most MO trout anglers keep what they catch. Possession and limit violations are VERY common on Taney, as are methods violations. You will see a lot of the fly anglers practicing C&R, and some even know how. But you won't see anyone else doing it. And fly anglers are in the minority on Taney by a wide margin except in the first 2 miles of the lake. It's pretty much a put-n-take fishery.

In some parts of Europe, which has largely abandoned capital punishment even for serial killers, poaching is still punishable by death. Remember Robin Hood? Actually, for THEM, their system makes pretty good sense. In fact, it is better suited to the reality over there than ours is suited to our reality here in many ways. But Germans LOVE beauracracy and rules! They get off on red tape. It's part of the fun for them.

A brother of mine was stationed at Bamburg about then. That was forward deployment territory. Not quite Ramstein. But I'm not going to argue about this stuff with you. My friend the Jaegermeister is a retired E7 combat engineer who works at Ft. Leonard Wood. So you are mistaken about that as well.

I just started a new MySpace group for folks who fly-fish or want to fly-fish the Ozarks. The url is http://groups.myspace.com/ozarksflyanglers I mostly did this for folks who have MySpace accounts already, but MySpace.com accounts are free to anyone who wants one.

If you had not completed the mandatory training for anglers licenses in Germany when you bought that license, you and the vendor broke the law...and the Status of Forces Agreement...a treaty between the US and Germany. The rod and gun clubs are EXCELLENT on the US bases there. But you can shortcut the law if you are termed that way. If you make an attempt to learn German and abide by their culture, the rod and gun clubs can take you pretty far. A good friend of mine became one of 5 Americans ever to achieve the coveted title of Jaegermeister via the base rod and gun club. He did it via respect, excellent sporting knowledge and skills, and a good command of the German language. It is worth mentioning that there are also a lot of bars, restaurants, hotels, and other types of businesses in Germany who will not allow Americans either...esp. American military personnel. This is NOT a political statement! This is the result of BAD BEHAVIOR over the decades since WW2 by American military personnel. BTW...there are some tourist exemptions/exceptions to the standards being discussed herein. These are the rules for Germans and other residents of Germany, including US military personnel stationed there.

So how would y'all classify it for float fishing above the lake? A very experienced paddler buddy of mine says it is his favorite stretch of water in MO because it is so under-utilized and beautiful.