Tim Smith

Thanks for the link, JD. I probably should have hunted it down myself. There is indeed a non-game (not specifically gar, but it includes them) season for snagging. I'd still like to see Plex's view on the post above. It would have been better to move once you were on the paddlefish (and you might fare better when and if you go to court, if you acknowledge that).

Ok, thanks. Looks like they're lumped in with all non-game species...

If what JD said in the other thread is true (and he's generally pretty good with facts when they're not associated with politics), there isn't a gar snagging season and there's more than just a paddlefish by-catch issue on the table here. Plex, you might be able shed this ticket, but it got issued because you weren't respecting the spirit of the law. There isn't a "gar snagging season" as far as the law is concerned. There's just a run-up to paddlefish season. Just because you put a steel leader on your snagging gear, doesn't mean you're targeting gar. You were out there to rip into whatever was interesting to snag and as your posts demonstrate you were plenty happy it was paddlefish. Once it was clear you were on the paddlefish, the responsible thing to do was to move down the bank and lay off the paddlefish....and you didn't. I can just about guarantee that the CO decided you were jumping the paddlefish season. Four was enough to show you were on a paddlefish concentration and you weren't making any attempts to avoid them. You didn't move. You didn't adjust. You just kept hammering the spoonbills. The snagging season exists to give the fish some periods of time to spawn with low stress when they aren't being harrassed. Those long fights build up lactic acid and can kill the fish with latent stress. You won't see it because it takes a few days, but yes it can kill them. Angling stress also causes the fish to pull lipids out of their egg masses and results in larvae with poorer condition and lower survival in the year class. If the stress is great enough they can even abandon the spawn altogther. There may not be much natural reproduction in Missouri right now, but it doesn't make much sense to batter the little bit that's there even further. Paddlefish are in trouble, partially because they can't migrate upstream at dams like the one where you were snagging them. Even if you are legally right, you were ethically wrong. It would be nice to see you admit that you should have backed off that spot and found another spot to fish. If people would do that kind of stuff on their own, we wouldn't have a tenth of the laws we have now.

...definitely need a background check on this one.

Yeah, JD, that was what I thought. Aside from alligator gar, the state doesn't really care about gar and doesn't regulate them... ...so there's not really a gar snagging season, just a period of time when you shouldn't be taking paddlefish. Which, probably is why you got a ticket, Plex. They just saw you as jumping the paddlefish season. Once you racked up the 4th one, they decided to shut you down. Muddy, those Texas gar are freaks. I remember water skiing there and they were so numerous sometimes when we'd circle back for a fallen skier, they'd be circling like sharks....big ones at 4 and 5 feet long. I've got a couple of scars from that little side-swipe they do with their heads. Great fish in general. We'll be seeing more and more of them over the years as things warm up.

Are you kidding? That officer is about as smart as it gets. By doing that she did her job far better than she would have otherwise and ended up making the state money and busting way more filthy rotten poachers who didn't think it was possible they were being watched. More power to her! Put 'em all in bikinis and suntan lotion if it works.... ...although there might need to be a minimum requirement for aesthetics.

Thank you, Hank.

So, that looks like regular "fishing", JD. What Plex is posting sounds like what I know about as "snagging" and it apparently uses the same gear as for paddlefish. Plex what is this about a season for snagging gar? Is there really a gar snagging season or just a season leading up to paddlefish snagging season?

I have seen 2 recent references to snagging for gar on the forum. I wasn't aware anyone ever tried to do this. The one gar I can remember snagging accidentally got off immediately because the hook didn't stay imbedded in those thick gannoid scales they have. Can someone enlighten as to how this is done and maybe what the attraction is?

That's a nice fish! You're pushing 36 inches and probably in the neighborhood of 10 pounds, but that's a wild guess. Maybe a little high. Gar tend to be heavy with those gannoid scales and you need a length weight converter to get close. Try here to estimate weight... http://www.csgnetwork.com/fishfreshwtcalc.html or a better one is here... http://www.garfishing.com/weighttables.html

The link had been removed because the producer reposted with higher quality video. It's working now.

In turbid water, a big white spinner bait with a fat colorado blade with lots of "thump". Easy to feel. Easy to find. In flowing water, unless I'm rolling baits over timber, I like in-line spinners. Still nothing in the stores better than Mepps as far as I can see. #2 or #3 for smallies.

I thought the point of being outdoors was to keep the pioneer spirit alive? 80 attacks in 10 years with literally millions of encounters. You'd be a vastly better parent to warn them about the people in the next campground over.

Here's what might be a positive note. A little off topic for the Ozarks, but most of us (minus a few allergies, 7th Day Adventists and eco-abstainers) probably eat shrimp. Unless you are intentionally buying wild-caught shrimp, what you eat probably comes from a shrimp farm. Here's the state of the art in progress toward sustainable large scale shrimp aquaculture as told through the eyes of a friend of mine.

Slap a pair of these a little sun screen and a life preserver on 'em and you're good to go, Mitch. Just don't let social services know.

Fixed that for ya.

No the NRA explicitly stated they have a wider agenda in their own literature. At this point your refusal to admit that falls below the line of integrity and there's no point in following this further. You're dodging every substantive issue in the discussion. By first demanding "Show me facts!" Then insisting "Wait, wait! Let's not discuss facts!" You're the one who brought up how good other DNRs are. Why did you ask this question about who's is better if you think you can't quantify which departments are better. You're doding your own question! ....i.e. DNR should roll over and take it and abandon science (which you won't discuss). I'm done here Jeb. No point in talking to walls.

Ok. Pressing past the nonsense... ...the summary at least looks useful. The last part is where the substance of the disagreement lies. Changing bosses will most certainly change the nature of the MDC. The bolded statement above can't really be reconciled with reality. Go to the Illinois NRA link and look at what the NRA deems unworthy of conservation funding and the kinds of influences to which the MDC would have to answer. Hunter surveys not useful? Really?? The punchline of that joke is that the NRA wanted to build a shooting range with that money instead. Too bad for any private shooting range operators, too bad for the IDNR who wanted to know what kinds of hunting regulations will be well received and what management rules will be effective, too bad for Illinois who has to answer to this senselessness when it comes to conservation. This is not an isolated attack on the MDC. It's a widespread attempt to undermine environmental science at the state level in many states.

From the NRA site. They're clearly gunning for the MDC.

These points are too easy for you to be missing, Jeb. Yes, let science do it's job. Part of that job is being skeptical. There's no contradiction there unless you're desperate to create one. The scars I have are from breaking my butt to get good data in the field. Most field scientists have them. We get them because we love what we do. You're twisting my words to suit your agenda and I don't respect that. The links have been made here to the NRA (a lobbying group) intentionally undermining the MDC (a science-based conservation organization). You're systematically ignoring that and repeating the same question over and over. That may pass for debate with the NRA base, but not in an actual discussion. You have no content to respond to at this point that amounts to more than spin. Fess up and flesh out your attack on MDC and maybe you'll have something to say.

No one takes information at face value in science, Jeb. That's the point of science. You test things and retest things and hone your understanding and reject hypotheses that don't stand up to scrutiny until you gradually arrive at the truth. Nothing I've said here redeems your position in the slightest. If you decide you want to stand with the NRA against the MDC as an objective source of information and a worthy administrator of public resources that's your call. I think that would be an exceptionally bad call.

The fact is most scientists don't sell out. If you're comparing the MDC to the tobacco industry scientists, you're up the wrong tree altogether.

...made it across 90% of the country looks like. This man must be stopped.

Wayne LaPierre: But if the bullets aren't made out of lead, that infringes on the right to bear arms! Jackbooted thugs are on the doorstep!! http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/toxins/leadqanda.html