Davy Wotton

Terry, it is , the 10 to 15 % difference is to allow for the user not tying it correct, which most of the time is related to not cinching the knot tight enough. Used it since the 1950s. for both fresh and saltwater fishing. I also use it for way larger hooks than the average trout fly size by the way and have landed fish over 100lb using it. Terry, we are the original hillbilly's DW

Yes, that is true you can subject leaders to that treatment, way too much messing around and you have to do it right. Far as l am concerned it realy serves no purpose. As it is used only for special conditons. DW

I had a question a few days ago from a client and feel you guys out there may also be interested in this. This all started back in the UK in the early 70s. The rods and mono in those days were not comparable to what you now have to do, so remember that. But you could still cast a very long way, which was well needed at times when fishing still waters, anything from 20 yards or more. Typically the evening rise as termed would be either to chironomids or caddis. Frequently due to the avergage size of fish, you would get bust off in a hurry. One of my friends, who was also a very good angler, figured out that we needed some sort of connection between the fly line and the fly that would absorb the shock of a big bow when it took the fly. Lake fish can hit you very hard and your natural reaction would be to raise the rod, good byy fish and fly. There was at that time a product on the market called Optima power gum. It was used by pole fisherman who do not use a reel as such. Here you have a conection from the tip of the pole that is a elastic, to that goes the line to the hook, with a float between for bite detection. What Arthur did was to use a short section of this power gum, betweenthe fly line and the fly. There was no doubt that this drmatically reduced loss of fish. OK, l had forgot all about use of this to be honest, until my client showed me a so called shock gum connection, which was way to short, not enough stretch and with a loop to loop conections for above and below attachment. Having used this for many years, and also knowing its worth, you may wish to give it a go if you are one who suffers from break offs when fishing with small flies and light line, less than 4x. Much of that related to too heavy a hook set, wrong rod of use, too heavy a fly line and so on. I will admit that l loose very few fish from break offs, now and again it will happen. First, buy this on a spool, it is available in 9 and 15lb bs. The position you have it fixed can vary from the fly line or lower down the leader to the fly. For avergage use you need about 4 to 6ins. It is a very supple material by the way. One reason why l choose not to have the connection at the fly line. The simplist way to attach it, and the way l prefered to do so was this. I would add this section 5 ft down from the leader and then to it add my length of additional. It is not easy to secure with a surgeons knot as it may when taught slip. Unless you add Zap a gap to that connection, which we did not have back then. I used at that time a more complicated knot fixture, that you do not need to day. The lower knot will act as a stop knot, so you can here tie the additional above that knot, or continue with a further step down of BS as you require. Some persons liked to use a very smll loop at this point. It does feel very strange when you play fish for sure, and there is no problem to set hooks with its use. DW. I forgot to add this. When a fish does take your fly, it does not feel the same degree of tension that it would without the gum. Some of us were more than convinced that this factor also increased hook ups, hard to prove that one way or the other, but l know a fish finds it more difficult to throw the hook due to the extra degree of stretch, it is the tension between your rod tip to the fly that doe's allow the fish to do that most times. DW.

Dave, You can use what you choose. A regular blood knot works fine. There are some other ones. You are not worrying about knot strength here by the way, 20/15 is way more than any other knot you will use lower down to the fly. Davy.

Ron, Could not agree more with you so far as using a more across to down stream presentation for small surface fished flies and emergers, not only will it allow for you to get right in line for the drift but it way lessons if you do it right the fish having sight of the tippet, as l know for a fact at times that will cause refusals to the fly. The only downside is drawinf teh fly away from they take, as you know you have to control how you do set the hook by this means. No doubt in my mind at all that longer sections of added line in finer x factors will greatly enhance takes from fish. So far as dry, emerger and nymph fishing. For the best part l think that 9ft leaders with shorter sections of added TP lesson takes, and way more so in conditions of slower flat water situations. I know that for a fact is the case here at BSD when we have low water and the fish are taking dry and emerger midge. Those guys wil spook for either sight of or surface dusturbance caused by the fly line, as well as any shadow caused by that fly line on the bed of the river. Leader and tippet will of course do same if the relative angle of the sun is against you. Not sure what your thoughts are so far as fly line color is concerned. It makes no difference to me other than l prefer white or at least a more natural shade, not because l believe that fish can determine line color by the way. I dislike HI vis lines, only because they mesmorize your eyes to that optical point. Any fly line will block light from passsing through it, that in turn will cause a shadow to be cast in given conditions of adverse light direction. I tell clients that one of the reasons you use leaders and tippets is to provide a relative distance from the fly line to the fly as the fly line should not be cast at or seen by the fish to start with. Have a great day. DW

Neiterh would l, they are out of town !! DW

Bob, that's great. Yes, l use rope to demo that as many persons cannot see mono that well, particularly the small diameters. Dave will be here with me this month. when he lived real close to me we would fish often to gether, since his move to OK, we kind of miss each others company, one way or the other. Davy.

Michael, Tell me Mick , how are you able to get away fishing all the time. When l had the factory and retail store that prohibited me from getting to fish, save for the evenings, the river was only 10 mins from my home. Simon is a gret guy. know him since he was a little kid and his father also. Brian, Hope you did ok at Rim, l know there were a bunch of waders there in the shoals, not that good when that happens. I fished with clients the upper and lower, below the islands. Best was a 8lb Brown, a ton of Bows, some nice ones in the 15 to 16. 20ins fish are hard to come by there these days, Bows at least. I mean a genuine 20 ins fish, not a assumption of that size. I see most of the Browns have been run off from behind the island, shame,that is a good spawning zone. l would rather see those fish left in piece to be honest. Davy.

They are over here Mike, DW

Terry. Am is mono and not FC. I would not choose to use FC for this purpose, about the only times l use FC from the fly line is for streamer fishing and when l make up my configurations for wet fly techniques, as l wish here for the entire system of mono and flies to be sunk, unless l am using say very small flies, wets or soft hackles that l wish to remain in the meniscus. As a rule you do not want to use FC leaders for nymph,or surface fishing. It sinks and will not allow for effective drift control. Sunk line above a indicator, be that mono or fly line aggrivates effective mending,and inhibits faster hook sets particularly when fishing at depth. You have to drag the line through the water and not off if it. I would not be without mucilin, that is my means to maintain high float of the fly line and leader section on the surface and not below it. There are other products out there, but as yet l have not found one that is as good, as they are way too viscous. Mucilin when subject to cold water will solidify. As a rule you would add the section of FC to the leader as such. In essence it is only that below a indicator that matters, or tp allow for the fly to fish well below the surface as such, without indicator use, such as fishing with soft hackles and caddis emergers etc. The reason why you would not go from the fly line direct to say 6x is this. You do need a transition that energy transmitted from the cast will track, and with a long section of 6x that will not happen unless the wind is in your favor to blow it out. You do need some sort of medium that will allow for transition for a turnover as such, and that is achived by graduations from the fly line to the fly. And your imput by way of the energy for the cast made as such. You would almost alwasys by doing this court some serious tangles. Fly line to 6x. I will by the way go from the fly line with at times 4lb BS when fishing 3 fly wets fly methods. Here it is not so much a x factor with the mono, it is the diameter relationship for the size of the flies used. Obtain my DVD Terry for Wet Fly Ways, as that will also show you how l set those rig systems up. Even long extended leader configurations do need some step down process as such. The basis of my way is essentially that, 5ft and then down. I used to spend a great deal of time as you know casting, be that distance or accuracy. In the case of the latter l would mess around with configurations for the perfect turnover as such. Much of the skill for achieving perfect turover is related to how you provide the energy, and the direction of your presentation. Add to that the weight and size of the fly used at that time. As that is also a important consideration here. The same in a fishing scenario. A size 22 midge will differ from a size 12 elk hair caddis, or a bead head nymph. They all require a different set up, and as a rule that would be the diameter of the mono you are using at that time, and how your configuration from fly line to leader to fly is formed. So can l turn say a small midge over in a straight line from the 15BS AM, yes. but l would not wish for such a fly to be in a direct straight taught line from my leader as such, l would require a softer more slack connection to a fly like that as l would require zero or any chance of drag, and a small fly like that will be influenced by very small amounts of drag even with 7 or 8x line. But l also would require at least some sort of known direction when l made the presentation so l know the location of the fly from the get go. It is harder the !! to look for a tiny fly like that if you did not see it land on the water surface. As a rule l here you would be fishing at close ranges and not 60ft away, but that is well possible when fishing on lakes and stillwaters. Got to get for now, Davy.

Ron, hi there, Thanks for your reply here. I did say here with few exception, and yes if there is a need to refine if you like the systems l use it will in the case of a dry line when fishing the smaller spring creek scenarios. Then as a rule l will have a littel more definition in the way l set up as such my leader systems. For years l fished also the chalk streams back in my homelands. Rivers like the Test, Itchen, Kennet, along with the free stone rivers, lakes and resevoirs. You are here dealing with some of the most difficult fish you will find any place else l have fished around the world. Those fish on the San Juan are way esier by comparison. From that experience l learned one thing, never let the fish know you are there. There were two essential elements here. The first being as l said not to let the fish know your presence the second making the right presentattion to that fish with the fly used, be it nymph, or dry etc. That also included extending over all length of your leader way more than 9ft at times. I still over all favour that practice if the surroundings allow that. Close qtr fishing in a confined space may not allow that, but then such systems differ from the wider more open water scenarios. Interesting also that you thoughts are for one choice of leader as such, which is more or less my way, but with the system as such l use for that purpose. I did forget to add also to my post that the use of the Amnesia also allows for me to see below the water surface the relative angle of direction and hang, my fly is at, also as l do not always use indicators as such, that allows me a high visual for take detecting with regular flat surface drift of high stick, or rolled nymph techniques. I will grease the AM as a rule here. I may also remove the 2ft section of 15 and go from there with my added section of leader, not often. I was recently in MT for a few weeks and showed many guide friends there my ways, as you may know most of the time there a very typical way in which rigs are used for drift floats etc. I convinced some of those guys that to have as such a permanent 5ft butt section and to add on for additonal was way more easy that having to chop and change leaders entire as such. I had some great times there fishing the Madison, Yellowstone and the lakes. I do wish that they did produce the AM in 10lb as 15 is the lowest, l might then change from the two section set up to 3. 20/15/10. Yes, l agree that a large part of fly fishing fun is talking about the products. When l owned the SLF dubing co, l also was a distributor for both US and EU products around the world. You would not believe some of the things that were sent to me as being considered by the innovators the answer to catching more fish, they defied logic at times. But, if anthing l am very happy that we do have mono and modern fly lines, and no longer silk and gut. Davy.

OK you guys, l am going to blow away many of the so called, Ways to do it. After a lifetime at this game, dealing with clients all over the world and so on it amounts to this in my book. And l will give you food for thought here. With a very few exceptions l do not use tapered leaders. You may well read that they are essential for perfect turnover. l am not going to spend a great deal of time building all manner of leader configurations from short sections of mono. I do not use furled leaders either, they are a expensive waste of time and are a modern concept produced with mono intead of gut, which was only available in short lengths to start with, like wise horse hair leader, if you wish to consider that also. There are very few circumstances that you need , what is termed as perfect turnover or what l term as a precision placement of the fly. Nymph fishing and streamer fishing are of course sunk fly methods. There is not need to be 100% accurate when fishing this way, but saying that you can get real close. But regardless of what ever configuration you use if you are not able to make the cast it will not happen. The perfect casting scenario is that when the fly lands, it is at a time when all energy transmitted is exhausted. If you do not apply it, it will not work, and if you apply to much energy you will get kick back, and may be tailing loops. It is very possible to add 6x to 10lb bs and l will tell you how. For dry line work l will not use braided loops, for many reasons. They are made from nylon and it sinks. It causes the tip of the fly line to sink, that will spook fish at times. It causes heavy line tip slap down and so on. A braided loop to a 3wt line is not condusive. Neither will l use a loop to loop connection as that also causes problems. It may make life easy to add a leader l accept that, but it is not my way. I have a fixed butt section that is made from. 3ft of 20 and 2ft of 15 bs Amnesia, red or green it doe's not matter. 5ft total, that leaves 4 ft to 9ft which is the standard length for a leader. To that my set up for the fishing is added. The 20lb AM is fixed to the fly line with the Whitlock no knot system. It is without a doung in my book the best way of avoing tip end snarl ups. It will last a entire season. I may have reservations for using that when fishing for large saltwater species, saying that l have nailed some big Redds and many small tarpon with its use. Oh, many big Browns also. There are two options here. The first is to add to the end of the 15 AM a tiny tippet ring. The second is to add a simple overhand knot. This is your stop knot. And that is the means that you can go from 15bs to 6x. You simply tie you 6x above the 15 and slide it down to the knot. You can by the way also do same for any other mono to mono. Tie a over hand knot to the 5x and tie above that 6x, slide it down to the knot. You avoid here a knot connection as such. I do favor by the way a surgeons knot, but l use 3 turns not two. Amnesia by the way is shooting head backing line. It is oval and not round and due to that it will not twist, and it will turn over way better than most leaders off the shelf. From the tippet ring or the stop knot you can add as you wish. I do not taper as such nymph leaders for many reasons. Fine diameter line allows less weight to be added to cause a fly to sink fast. What l will do is to add by a straight length say 4 or 5 ft of 4/5/6x depending on what l wish to use, related to fly size, depth and speed of the water. There may be a few time that l will add say 2/3ft of 4x and drop to 6x. most times here it is when l am not using as such a strike indicator. You must also consider what filament you are using. FC sinks app 4 times faster that regular mono and copolymer is the slowest of the 3 filaments out there. There may be some difference for mono FC coated by the way. So in respect of that l choose also the filament for the fishing situation at the time. In the case of fishing streamers, same also, no need for tapered leaders. The fly when cast on the water and when stripped by you will straigten out the system. My midge and emerger fishing is done by the same means with the AM. This is the systems l use for all my clients. It has many advantages. If you do make a big screw up you can easily see what is AM and what is the added. Most times with clients l will not mess around tyring to sort the mess out. I cut it off and re rig, way quicker most times. One good tip here. Something l see all the time. If you screw teh rig up. Cut the fly off first. It is way easier to deal with when the hook is removed. That l can assue you . So far as placement of indicators as such. For very high water they will be attached to the AM, some place within the 15bs, for lower water situations l use only yarn and that will go on to added mono below the 15 at the determined point l wish for depth and drift of that fly. My wet traditional style wet fly rigs do differ here by the way, and that is because l may be using as many as 3 flies on leader set ups 12 to 15ft long. Here again, they are not as such of a tapered configuration. Any questions here guys fire away. Bottom line is this. I have learnt in the past 48 years of fly fishing how to find the least complicated way of setting up rigs. It is the fly that the fish takes. It is you that place the fly in the right place, and if, and when needed, fish it in the right manner. A fish has no concern with the tackle that you use or how you have rigged it up. What matters to me is the fly or flies that l use and how l will present that fly or flies to the fishes eye. Given the rods and lines tah l use to get it there and deal with hooked fish. In many respects there is way too much BS taked about in this game. If it were that difficult many would go home fishless. Davy.

Thanks for the referals for my knot. I have used that since the 1950s, as when l was a kid it was the only way l could figure out how to tie a hook on. To day for example a Brown of 8lb was landed to 6x with that knot, and in my life time literally 1000s of fish have l caught, and l see something like 8 thousand fish a year get caught by clients who fish with me. I have used that knot for all species l have fished for, tarpon and many other very large saltwater species. It is just about the fastest knot you an tie. You have a very small knot and you waste very little tippet or mono when tying that knot. In fact l can tie that in less than a second. Dead easy when your hands are cold. You can only tie that knot two ways, right and wrong. If it slips you did not cinch it down well enough. Or you did not reverse the turns. I am not going to get into the issue of how nylon is tested as such as under those clinical situations it cannot take into consideration such things as how you set the hook, how much stretch there is of fly line/leader to fly. What action of rod you use, relative angles you hooked the fish at and so on. I also know that much of what you are told by way of filament diameter and BS, are exactly that. Use what you are comfortable with. What suits one may not another What Zach says is also correct, that the diameter of a hook eye is related to the diameter of the wire gauge used. I was at one time a technical director for the Partridge hook co, and that at times gave us problems when sorting as it where the scale up or down for a new hook pattern. Hook eye size should also have some bearing on the diameter of the tippet or leader termination that you use. Only a fool would use 6x tied to a size 4 wooly bugger. Small flies of course give you little option as large DI mono will not pass through the eye. Davy.

I am more than sure that the persons concerned here were subject to fines a few years ago for violations so far as removing gravel, l cannot remember the exact details as such. I guess the make so much money that the impending fines are considered a operating cost factor. At around 120 bucks now days for a load of gravel and something like 70 for a yard of concreat. DW.

Just wrote about the fact on another post, the 4 piece rods do have a habit of working loose, tip and mid sections as a rule. I would not use wax as you can attract grit and that can cause ware to the spigot or male section. Not good in heat either. Tape the joint around with electrical tape, that will stop the problem. Another way we would deal with this was to find a blade of grass and use that. Stick the tip of the grass in the female and set the lower in so as the grass blade is compressed between the two. You do not always carry tape with you !! DW.

Many thanks Brian. I may have some problems keeping up with all the boards that l visit. Just off to BSD for the day with the clients, and we have bad storms here at this time. How is the NF fishing at this time by the way, need to get there before to long, that river has a very special attraction for me. Dave Whitlock will be here with me from 16 to 21 Nov, so we may get to go there in that time, he loves that river also. Davy.

No doubt at all that Sage carry with introduced technology and the quality of the material they use the best fly rods all round in the world. In my book. And you pay for that. TFO are also great rods for the money, yes they may lack a little in cosmetics, at least the low end price range series does. Oh the other hand the TICRX series are fine rods, with a good comparison to some of the Sage range. In both cases l own more rods than l know what to do with. But each and every one does have a place depening on what l am fishing for and the techniques l wish to use. I am not going to cast 80ft with a 3 wt and a heavy fly. On the other hand a fast action rod like the SP.XP TCR may not be the coice when fishing in the Smokey Mtns for 6 ins Brookies. They all have a purpose for use. Davy.

Yes, well, l do not use nets unless in the boat, but l know many girls who like rubber Mike. DW

The process we use to make dubbings as such are way more complex than most persons realise. I at one time developed and manufactured all the SLF series along with others before l sold my company to Wapsi fly. It would take a book to write all l know about this subject matter. But in essence it is material that is as a rule by some means twisted around or within thread and then wound on the hook. But you can dub fly bodies by many other means. You can dub material around wire or anything else that will maintain the tension and twist with out breaking. Davy Wotton

I am banned from the casting event here at the southern conclave because l am classed as a professional. Makes no sense so far as l am concerned, how do you define a pro to start with. I could write a ton of names here on this site that are, or would be classed as professional, but l also know that they are not able to cast over 100ft. It should be a open event. Terry. you are getting into hot territory here regarding what lines we use for those long range casts. I use different lines depending on the climatic conditions as that differs from a inside event. Adverse winds are a bitch when it comes to long line hang, that is the overall length of line you hold from your hand to its end. And in the case of most long range 100ft plus it has to be around 85ft. If l have adverse winds then l choose to use lines with a more WF profile, that allows me to hold less line in the backcast but also allows that line to travel far, but you may not get a ral clean turn over as such, due to the shorter head section. High humidity is also a bitch to work with for the ultra long distances, the air is too dense. I will use the SA.ED, which is a 120 ft line, but l have also lines produced in the UK that have got me over 120ft in the past 5 and 6 wt by the way here. Both rod and line profile matter, but the main issue is your casting skill. 60ft casts are a long way for the average fly fisher, 80 to 90s are getting up there, in the 100 plus, then you have spent a gret deal of time to perfect your casting skills, no doubt of that. And ranges like that are about useless for fishing anyway, you cannot set a hook. Casting styles also differ a great way when you are into the long range stuff. Your physical attributes, height and weight, you ability to generate very high line speed and how you do it. For my self it is a pick up of around 60ft, extend that to at leaat 75 backcast, forward cast the same length, then rapidly increase line speed to achieve a back cast of at least 85 or more before the final forward cast. It has to be a very short fast progressive action with increasing line speed. Waving the line back and forth is not really the answer. And you have to have a very strong for arm, and with that perfect wrist control.As well as a very fast haul with the non rod hand. I use a 20lb weight to keep my arm in shape. Hold the weight out at arms length, raise above the head and lower again, 10 times. Davy.

Good question and one often asked by my students. If price is a issue then that would have a bearing on your choice. Sage are without a doubt in my book the world leaders in fine fly rods for many reasons, too long to get into here the reasons why. TFO offer great rods at a realistic price.I have many of those also myself. And so also do other companies. 1. So far as 2/3/4 piece rods, do they differ,yes, but unless you are a very skilled caster the differences and can recognise that,they are not a issue to be honest. All the rods l use for casts 100ft plus are 4 sections. The only downside to 4 piece rods is that the sections may loosen as the act of casting can cause the sections the twist and separate. The more you have the more likely that can happen. It is by the way something that will happen more so if you use roll and switch casts, or you are one of those that rotates your arm during the casting stroke. Choice of rod should be related to what you intend to use it for, saying that not all 9ft 5 wt rods are the same as action will differ in so may ways. A Sage TCR 5 is not the same deal as a TFO 9ft 5 pro, far from it. I would suggest that if you are a moderate caster, intend to fish mainly for trout and may be perch jerking then look for a 9ft 5wt with a moderate mid section flex as that action is by far for most the more comfortable to use at close ranges, 10 to 50ft. I do not in any way make considerations to sections other than the travel aspects. To day the factors of both rod and line weight relation is some what of a nonesense. I will write more about that later on a new thread. Davy.

River runner. I assume that you are saying ( intakes ) you are relating that to the outlets from the lake to the river. Stratification as l have already said a process that takes place early spring and into summer. It is a combination of things that causes this to take place. Climatic conditions of warmth and sunlight cause such things as algae to flourish. Wind and wave action and the growth of green plant life contribute to bring about higher levels of dissolved oxygen into the surface of the lake. The body of water, due again to wind and wave action starts to move around as the water temperatures change. Cold water will be in the Hypolimnion levels and the bed of the lake, warmer water will be in the surface and the thermocline will be at a given level related to upper and lower temperature. It is at the bed of the lake that the process of decomposition takes place. For that to take place there need to be oxygen and a biological process of living forms. If the levels of contaminant are so great that the normal process of aerobic action cannot take place, then that causes a build up of matter that becomes toxic. And has adverse effects to the body of water as a whole. The lower levels of the lake, the Hypolimnion do not contain high levels of oxygen to start with, and that level, depending on the depth of the lake may hold a way higer percentage of water contained with a low DO. During the cold periods, the wamer water sinks and starts to mix with the colder. Surface aggitation helps also this process. In the case of our lakes the low levels of DO and the fact that they also contain vast amounts of decaying matter that is not being taken care of by natural process, the situation becomes worse as the action of water movement mixes the cauldron. During the periods of cold weather there is no stratification as such, and that is the main reason why the entire body of water contained is thus subject to lower levels of DO. There for, low levels of DO are always at the lower levels. I do not know the levels that water is drawn off from the lakes, matter of fact l will find that out. But l can tell you this. The Norfork hatchery has 3 draw off levels. In the warm periods water from the upper levels is of no use as the temperature is way to high, so they drain off at given levels to regulate the temperature of the water. At this point in time they have no choice but to draw water that is very low in DO, but they do have a oxygen infusion system to deal with that, to a point, as even now they are also loosing fish. They need a way more efficient system to be installed. Tailwater systems are of course a man made factor. Bodies of water contained behind a dam are to all intense and purposes a barrier to allow watr to flow its natural course as it once did. The fact of the matter is that they also act as a trap for any contaminants that are allowed to infest that body of water. When a situation arises that the normal process of biological break down cannot take place then we get problems, and so long as the contaminants continue so that problem becomes worse. There is a very fine balance within the living organisims within a body of water. If that is in some way altered, which is the issue here, then the results of which will be seen for the rivers and streams that are subject to that water release. And they are in consequence also deluded of nutrient and loss of suitable food base,vegetation, for the fish species that live there. Without plankton, which is more or less the start of the food chain there is little hope. One way or the other you are screwed unless that situation is dealt with. Davy I should have added here also. This is the reason why we all need to support a action group to fight against the continual pollution of our waterways. If not, you will see a decline to such a extent that you may as well go to a trout farm to fish, which to some extent is taking place now. No more stockers, could the rivers support both long term survival and natural reproduction. Not a hope in hell, even if many new regulations were brought into effect. Davy Wotton.

The incidence of low DO is of course a problem associated with seasonal times of the year, primarily when the main body of water, the lakes above the rivers turns over. The stratified levels due to water temperature change cause both high and low water temperature to start to mix. Coupled with also the changes within the chemical balance of that body of water and the aggravated effect we suffer from biological and introduced toxins, and so on. The normal process of stratification is as. The upper levels of the lake are the Epilimnion. Then the thermocline and below that the Hypolimnion. The upper levels may have levels of Oxygen content well in and above at times 8 parts per mill. The lower Hypo , will be in the 2 parts per mill. That level is inadequate for the support of fish life. At the lake bed you will have a sedimentary base that is essentially a oxidised layer of mud that will prevent nutrients from passing from that substrate. And that is of course where all contaminants will eventually settle. It is the incidence of light, climatic warmth, wind and wave action that accounts for the stratification within the body of the lake. Biological process also is a contributing factor to how a body of water does moves around, along with other influences. As the incidence of climatic conditions change so to does the 3 defined levels of the stratification as described. It is also a factor the fisherman recognise so far as the most productive zones to locate fish at given times of the year. This is a natural process that does take place in any body of water that has a acceptable depth for that process to take place. Lakes are classified as having 3 primary factors so far as the value or being very high or non productive. Eutrophic--being those that contain a healthy bio-mass for the support of all organisms and plant life. It is the introduction of contaminants that are introduced that cause problems, as are well demonstrated for the lake systems we have here through the White river system. And as the tail waters are subject to that water from above so to they are subject to that contamination. When the lakes turn over that situation becomes even worse. What takes place then is the Do levels are too low for the support of both fish, plant and invertibrate food forms. Low do in the 2% causes metals to be dissolved into solution, increases the levels of micro spirosis, bacterial growth and with other factors, deludes the body of water from the nutrients that is needs. The introduction of air as you and l know it does not solve the problem entirely as air consists of only around 25% of oxygen, the remaining bulk mainly nitrogen, that further aggravates the situation. It is only the introduction of high levels of pure oxygen that can resolve or at least help this in-balance to become corrected. One reason why we have to have such installations installed to correct this situation at times when we suffer from very low levels of DO. It would also long term be a solution to, at least maintaining a higher level of acceptable water conditions for the rivers below the dams. Such systems are costly, but one has to ask, do you continue to let the rivers die. Davy.

I will add further to Dan's post here what we are looking to do for the set up of a recognised body. Got to get with clients as of now for the river. Davy.