Bamboozle

Given the argument that barbless hooks greatly increase fish survival, and that more fish survival presumably equals more fish in the creek, what do folks think about a barbless regulation? It would mean fewer fish landed but also, over the long run, more fish would equal more opportunities to land fish.

In the last string Harps suggested that MDC change regs on CC back to catch and release only. I'm interested what folks think of this, pro and con. While we're at it would also be interested in what people would think of making it barbless only water? Obviously no matter what the regulations are there will always be folks that break them, so I'd love to see the converation (if any!) centered around the merits of the concepts themselves rather than saying: people will break the rules so therefore there should be no rules... For instance is it good for the creek to have the big fish taken out to make way for new ones? I've certainly heard that argument before. As for barbless I will confess that I'm in favor of this just because it makes things so much easier on the fish. That said I will admit that with my daughters when they were fishing first time on CC I let them use a barb until they'd caught their first trout and then from then on it's been barbless only. So if this rule changed I would have to change my behavior.

Having been at this a while I've found that when the civility goes by the wayside so too, in fairly direct proportion, does the usefulness of the discourse. Pruett if you're serious about being "all in" for an organization send me an email and we will go from there. If you don't hear back right away don't worry. Going to Colorado this weekend to fish. So it won't be me putting pressure on CC this weekend! If I catch anything good I will post a photo... Lol

What I really appreciate about almost all of the above is that several members of the forum have been able to disagree (with me!) in a civil and reasoned fashion. Which I have not always found to be the case on this forum. So thanks so much to all of you for that. That said I do think that what I said got a little skewed here. I specifcally said that this should be a forum for advice and help. So a "newbie" coming on here should and would be able to get advice. I certainly didn't advocate getting rid of the forum. "Discretion" does not mean "silence." Discretion simply means keeping some things close to your vest. Even within the proper definition of discretion there are some spirited disgreements with me which I accept even if I don't entirely agree with them. I tend to see local use/abuse of the creek (worm containers) as an unfortunate constant. Given that the local kids aren't going to go away or stop fishing with worms, I do believe that additional pressure from fly fishers is just that, additional pressure, no matter how ethical or well-intentioned they might be. I also think there's a lot we could do to reduce the pressure that we as fly-fishers put on the resource. This gets back to a post that I think Pruett did a couple of weeks back: 1) Fish barbless 2) Make every effort not to take fish out of the water (if you must post photos take them of fish in net in water.) and (my own addition) 3) Don't fish during the spawn Finally I think there's a lot more we could do to actively enhance or improve the resource. For instance, organizing and particpating in stream clean ups. As another example I recently wrote an (unanswered!) letter to Rapid Roberts asking them to consider switching from styrofoam to paper so that at least when cups get thrown into the creek they will dissolve. Not all may agree with the specifics of that request but the larger point is one of actively trying to help and or improve the resource. Water quality can be improved enormously by planting trees along the riparian corridor. I think there's a good chance MDC will be doing this in the fall or spring on the new land they've bought across from the ball fields. Also a good chance they will want volunteers. I also think it would be great to try to offer some sort of free fly-fishing clinic in Crane. Take those kids with the worms and teach them to fly fish. Get them to get a decent fish to take on a dry fly and they'll never go back. Of course, that could increase the pressure on the resource, so perhaps I've beaten myself at my own argument. But I think we'd all agree that replacing a bait fisher with treble hooks with a fly-fisher would be a net gain for the creek. All of this leads to the idea of organizing a not-for-profit Friends of Crane Creek to co-ordinate volunteer projects that are positive for the creek and to act as an organized advocate for the creek. Any joiners?

Hey Pruett: Well spoken and thought out as always. I certainly didn't feel slammed etc. While I basically think everything you said was right on target I would only say that even the guys who fish once and give up are adding pressure to the resource. And if their numbers are augmented by what we post here then what we post here is an issue. To expand on your scenario look at it this way: 1) Guy reads about CC in some magazine or guide. 2) Guy Googles it 3) Guy arrives this forum At this point if the guy finds posts about fly selection, catching flies in limbs and even a few good days fishing he might make the trouble to come down. But lets face it a picture is so much more powerful than words. So if he finds pictures like some of those that have been posted over the last few days my feeling is he's way more likely to come down. In my opinion more guys coming down = more pressure on the resource = diminished quality of the resource. Just to come back to my first sentence: I think often on this and many other forums the shrill, the rude and the knee jerk often rule. In this response to my post, Pruett, and in general you're a notable exception to this and that's a real asset to the forum and, at the end of the day, to the creek.

"The rest of lower wire was productive with some smaller trout, but the holes which get fished a lot didn't produce much." There are two themes we see again and again in these posts: 1) Guys posting pictures of the nice fish they have caught and 2) Guys commenting on how much pressure the public sections of creek seem to get. This is kind of summed up in this report. It's of course up to individuals to make a decision one way or the other. But it does seem to me that by posting these pictures (and videos) we're only going to increase pressure on this resource. People see that indeed there are big trout in Crane Creek (the general reputation is otherwise) and decide to give it a go. Discretion is one of the great traditions of fishing. The more discreet we are about Crane Creek, the better the fishing will be. I don't mean this in any way to single you out Andrew -- but I've just seen several posts along these lines in the last little while and thought I'd mention it. Anyway, let the excoriation of Bamboozle begin!

My gosh you guys could at least smile after catching a couple of nice fish... See, that wasn't so hard...

* Barbless hooks, come on it doesn't take much to pinch down a barb * How bout a few less photos of fish on the rocks * And it never hurts to pick up a little trash Amen! This should be its own topic! Way to go Pruett417!

Just a reminder to folks to try to leave a little $$ in Crane when you go. Hopefully this will help local folks appreciate what a special creek that they have and maybe take care of it. The Crane Cafe on Main Street is good for basic Burger and Fries fare. The Pizza Place on 413 on the North end of town has all kinds of food in addition to Pizza. This is the folks who used to have the place in Hurley and have now moved to Crane. Unfortunately in both cases you may end up sitting beside folks smoking. If you're a smoker: hurrah! If you're not a smoker just try to think of it as retro...

It it's Ozark Englishman's site you all are concerned about he's made it clear that it's on private land -- and given this legitimate concern he's actually modified the site slightly to hopefully make this even more clear. Or maybe it's some other site I'm not finding?

Several local volunteers, plus an awesome group of teenagers and folks from as far away as Springfield and Kansas City got together yesterday to clean up the new ground MDC has purchased. Numerous tires came out of the creek (maybe 30!!) as well as about 20 bags of litter and lots of random old metal debris. Was really gratifying to see some folks -- including a few (but too few!) anglers -- giving something back to the creek! Kudos to SW Missouri Fly Fishers, Crane City Councilman Kyle Bentley, and MDC Streams Coordinator Shane Bush for organizing and participating in the clean up! We even had a visit from Crane Mayor Collin Brannon. Biggest kudos to the kids from a local group home who did by far the most work and made a huge contribution to making our stream beautiful!

A group of Crane Creek fans are meeting at 8:30 Sunday at Upper Wire Rd access. The main focus as I understand it will be on the new property acquired by MDC on the south side of the creek opposite the baseball fields, just off of 413. So if you arrive late that'll be the place to go. This is a great opportunity to give something back to the creek that's given all of us so much pleasure over the years.

I may be opening a can of worms -- or Royal Wulffs -- here but it really is best to refrain from fishing right now. Even if the fish are not on a redd if they've recently bred they are likely in a weakened state and particularly vulnerable. Catching them, playing them on the line etc can potentially be fatal. So while I truly admire everyone on this thread for trying to understand what redds look like in order to protect them, I do feel that those of us who are continuing to fish during this time of year are kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul: avoiding redds because you rightly care about the long term health of the resource while at the same time potentially (if inadvertantly) killing fish. As I said in an earlier post this is a good time of year to watch fish, look for redds, use the openness of the woods to make new discoveries about the creek and generally revel in the miracle that are these fish. And, while you're at it, pick up trash, tires etc so that when we do go back to fishing in a month or so the experience and the creek will be that much more pristine.

The issue of trespass/navigbility was debated ad nauseum a few months ago on this forum. Many stongly-held opinions on this forum -- and a few below the belt comments! -- but I can pretty much assure you that whatever your own opinion, the opinion of the landowner will be that you're trespassing on his land. So it just comes down to your own comfort level with interacting with angry land-owners. Considering there are almost what, 4 miles, of publicly-owned water on Crane Creek it really seems more prudent to stick to this water. There are plenty of fish, plenty of big fish, and very few anglers on it at any time. Here's a good on-line map of the public water. In addition MDC has recently purchased the land south of the ball-fields, which is shown as private on this map. http://www.cranecreektrout.com/PublicAccessinCrane.pdf

Great fish! Spawn is just beginning. I walked about 1/2 mile of creek yesterday and didn't see any redds but did see red-sided male fish. Remember also -- if you can resist -- it's probably best to refrain from fishing for awhile here. Spawning fish are vulnerable fish and getting caught and landed can stress them beyond the point of recovery. THIS fish clearly wasn't spawning and the spawn isn't on hard yet, so this comment isn't directed at trout_bum but is more of a general comment going forward. As my picture shows, there are plenty of other trophies to be gathered on Crane Creek this time of year...

You want me to let go my hard-won evidence just like that? Ok. It's attached. Note under rainbows it refers to Crane River, Stone County, Mo. So I guess one could argue that's a "gray" area but I don't think it's too gray. Under the brown trout below it refers to Crane Creek. In the interests of full disclosure I will say this came to me from a more knowledgeable source than I -- so I am not the piscatorial researcher I might seem.

The records of the US Fish Commission show stocking of 500 rainbows in Crane Creek in 1891 (as well as 500 Browns!). There were at least four further stockings between then and 1919. So the oft-told legend of the happenstance stocking by railroad workers is clearly apocryphal. The rainbows used for stocking by the Fish Commission were a mixture of coastal rainbows (steel heads) and McClouds (see Behnke on this.) There was also a hatchery at Brown’s Spring, along Spring Creek, which certainly could have been a continuing source of stocking (and diverse genetics) to the Crane Creek/Spring Creek watershed. As for the question of “redband” on the Crane Creek trout I’ve caught numerous trout in Crane Creek over the years with significant orange coloring on the underside around the pectoral fin reaching up to the gills. It does seem that this coloring is found mostly in immature and adolescent trout and not on the (very few) “big” fish I’ve caught in Crane Creek. That said the Crane Creek trout have very few spots below the band of pink on their flanks, which is typical of McCloud trout. The timing of spawning seems an unlikely indicator of ancestry. Water temperature is a factor, and Missouri winters are much milder than those in the McCloud drainage. In addition simple natural selection has likely played a big part over the last 120 years: fish that spawned later, like in March or April, would have been less likely to see their off-spring survive due to the timing of Missouri’s spring floods. Conversely, earlier spawners’ off-spring were (and are) more likely to survive. As others have pointed out on the string, at the end of the day the upshot is what matters: Crane Creek has lovely wild trout that are a privilege to pursue and, occasionally, catch. And yes energy devoted to worrying about this topic might be better aimed at old tires and Gatorade bottles!