Wayne SW/MO

I don't know what the temperature of TR is, but I'm sure Taney is the same now.

That is good news. To tell the truth Dan I thought something else when I read the title.

Not like car insurance, you don't have to insure yourself in your car insurance, you only need to protect the public. If it was like car insurance Brian you would have to buy me health insurance.:lol:

It seems to me that they have always tried to hold it in BS, but I suppose every storm has different properties.

But no mention of GE??? Seems that oil companies aren't the only ones who have sugar daddy's in Washington.

I believe that is a myth. While I believe that it was right to include all in tax breaks and it should include all in a hike, the percentage difference isn't the incentive killer some believe. If you don't believe that simply look at how long it has been in affect. Our present situation isn't a lack taxes, it's a lack of government financial discipline. If it's not bad enough that they spend more than they get, they print funny money with our name on it to make up the difference!

Exactly!! The mere fact we can discuss a flat tax is because we don't have one. The reason we don't have one is because we tax the wealthy at a much higher rate, something that would have to be made up by those in the lower income brackets. It really simple math. No one should confuse tax rates with deductibles. The only deductibles that have been adjusted are those affecting the lower income brackets.

But didn't it cite previous commercial use as the their reason for allowing trespass of the streams banks and bottom?

The one thing that would worry me if Elder is revisited is the non-navigational status. The court has already given ownership to the landowner and if it decides that a creek has to have had some prior commercial use other then canoeing, many would fail the test.

Shhhhh. Work together for all? Have you seen their benefit package? It's obvious they're not working for us because we don't get anything near that. Trust me, they have no problem working together if it's convenient.

I'm in no way talking about abandoning Elder, if it works I don't care what it says. My point was and still is, don't make a mountain out of a molehill. If you have a ruling in your favor you don't want try again. The county sheriff says it can be floated and he is the authority that can stop you, so let it lie and keep him happy. All this talk about retribution is fine for the long distance members, but Chief, Ollie, and some others live there. There is no sense in challenging a win, save it for the next battle.

My point here Al is in reference to this posting. Information allegedly from the MDC. I wouldn't want the question to go before a county judge because it would be a roll of the dice. At some point you have to define Elder because not all streams are comparable to the Meremec if people want a hard fast ruling. The guy may be wrong, or he may be right, but as long as the sheriff and the prosecutor believe he's wrong, he's wrong and I wouldn't put them in a position to rethink their decision. Let sleeping dogs lie.

There are suppose to be some in the bootheel, but no doubt the White would be the better choice. If you want to go a little farther there's the Red river between TX and OK.

Well suggest they turn what is probably the most popular stretch into C & R......then run! High Bank hole? What about the Bluff, the Outlet, the Long and the Bridge hole? And the theory that the Whistle is a barrier has some holes in it.

And fingerlings seem to survive better in high water with lots of brush to hide in.

It's always smart to let sleeping dogs lie. The guy will probably find others to harass and if it is one sided the sheriff may well get a little irritated with him. That won't happen if he believes there is harassment coming from this encounter. I agree with Hank, he's not wrong and this isn't a battle you want to go to court. This doesn't happen very often and there is no use making mountains out of molehills.

A lot of accusations, but little information. It is not necessarily environmentally friendly to use dishes either, I'm sure they heated a lot of water and used a lot of soap to clean them. So if you recycle the plastic the impact may be neutral. Justin there is a small group called the Third Way. They are Democrats who are liberal on social issues and financially conservative. I have to laugh at the post that all landowners on streams are conservative, some will say anything to try and make a point.

You have to be careful about pushing for resolution to the problem. The Farm Bureau, a glorified insurance company now, loves to appear as the savior of landowner rights. They have a lot of money to spend making their policy holders happy.

For me it comes down to the highest form of selfishness. The landowner appears to be right to a point in the gray area, but what harm does it do to the county's reputation and economics to keep a foot off of a shoal or the bottom of a creek? Beyond that there is also the mysterious top gun, why was he there? Did the landowner send him to scare everyone off? I find it strange the he disappeared when things apparently got interesting. I also think the county has an obligation to warn people who want to float this section that they could be in danger of legal action. They put up speed limit signs, trash signs and other signs warning people, but how many people know you can't pull your boat through a shoal or step on the stream bottom on parts of Shoal creek? Wayne Kirtley, Rockaway Beach MO and native of this state.

Why?? I feel for the people there, but I'm not familiar with exactly where the fires are. We don't get in depth reporting about Texas here. Would you care to comment on the fires in Arkansas?

The biggest problem with a year around C & R in the parks would be keeping the trout from migrating. There are no two barriers in Bennett. The policing wouldn't be easy either. It's amazing what people will do for a big fish. The is the winter C & R and the river which doesn't see a lot of catch and keep beyond the accesses.

Great idea Chief. I think the complaints should be in the form of concerns about floating in that county. It should be pointed out that the concern isn't about trespassing on land, but on the stream bed, something you can contact at anytime, intentionally or not. I think it could also be pointed out that if this is the legal stance of the county, then they or the MDC should warn people at the public access points. I wouldn't make any threats, at least not obvious ones, and not question the county's stance on the subject, just the personal concerns and that your money might be better spent in a more floater friendly county. The landowner may not have as many buddies as he thinks if the powers that be get enough people voicing concerns.

You'll never harm as many smallies with a Rapala as you will with a tube, but no one worries about tubes. There are big trout in Bennett, the lunker hunters make it their mission to find them.

Ithink it's also time to let the county know they are playing with money. If we had some addresses, either mail or e-mail, we could let them know, by we I mean a whole lot of us, could let them know that if the county is unfriendly to fishermen, we'll take our dollars elsewhere. It wouldn't help to threaten a petition to MDC for a sign warning people not launch at that access because of possible legal problems. They probably mistakenly believe that Chief and a few friends are the only people aware of what happened. If they get a load of complaints they will have a choice, they can entertain this abnormal land owner or keep the outside money flowing.

That Expedition is a lot wider than I thought. That's surely not and old picture is it?