Wayne SW/MO

I can't agree SM, putting c-stores out of business hurts them, and then gas will either rise because of less competition, or because the capital investment requires it. There are still stations with little more than a shack to pay at and they persevere. Or more. Getting enough people to find an alternative to burning fuel, for even a few days a week, in order to make a difference is doable, but I agree very unlikely. Eventually the economy has to absorb the loss of dollars leaving the country, and it won't be painless, but if it hurts enough changes will be made. the changes, as they have always been will be cheap bandaids eventually replaced by realistic options. This will take many years however. I guarantee you we would not be facing the threat of terrorism at the level we are if we weren't indirectly financing it.

I was thinking May, I could do June 8,9,10

I think to have any effect on the real culprits, OPEC and the market investors, gas consumption has to cut. Imagine what the affect would be if 25% of the workers stopped driving to work. I'm talking about an equivalent, something achieved by an all out effort to car pool or ride public transportation? If it was nation wide the refinery reserves would shoot up, force the market speculators to become uneasy, and put OPEC on notice that alternatives are coming in the face of high gas prices. American drivers keep prices high. They can also lower them because they run on one thing, supply and demand.

You're not suppose to count that in food cost Thom, thats under medical, Physiological Therapy.

Sure, if we can come up with a date. There's plenty of water. How about 18,19, and 20?

We did? Ethanol is not THE answer, no more more than hydroelectric is the only practical source of generating electricity. In fact I think most of the problems are highlighted here. Some don't want Ethanol, some don't want mass transportation, some don't want nuclear power, and the list goes on. What needs to be done is a a realistic effort to incorporate all the sources of energy into that part of society they fit and benefit. People simply need to quit complaining about gas prices and start demanding alterantives. I think I've seen you, scary! Thom, sounds like an idea. If we plow up I-44 and 65, we could probably get rid of the crowds on our locale waters.

Well if that fails you can always do what the oldtimers did, hunt 'em.

Brian you're right, Ethanol is alcohol and anything that will ferment will make ethanol. Bio diesel is even more versatile, it can be made from grass to turkey parts. The key is in getting research done to allow producers to be versatile in what raw materials they require. Then cheap crops can be developed and adjusted to meet ideal growing conditions. I agree with Dan that great strides toward easing the projected shortages, which cause the price spikes, could be had if people in urban areas used mass transit.

A popular lure for surfacing "Sandie's" (Oklahoma Whites) was a 5/8oz topwater such as a spook with a jig trailing on a 12" leader. The idea was that you could throw the heavy lure a long way without spooking the fish. They worked well, but you needed to use 20# mono for the leader to prevent tangles.

The big investors and the crude producers have to smile when the oil companies take the brunt of the complaints. As catman posted, the profit margin is the key, and they aren't anywhere near the top. If we want stable prices for fuel that is acceptable for most Americans, we have to produce it from raw materials here. Its not just the economic security, but the national security thats at stake.

What do you attribute this too Bill?

Should do something before schools out.

Part of the problem with Ethanol is that it was made to use corn surpluses, and its still being made from corn. I saw a news piece this week that pointed out that the price of corn is increasing and taking many other food items with it. The fallacy of this, and the news didn't mention it, is that Ethanol doesn't have to be made from corn. There's also the price support part of the equation.

The suspense is killin' me now Knee deep I too was disturbed to hear of a youngster running toward fast cold water. I just couldn't resist when it turned into a "24" plot.

He generally attends the Missouri Smallmouth Alliance Rodeo. I haven't been lately, but Al A, or Gavin would probably know.

You'll defiantly, most likely, face fluctuating water levels.

Wildminner, you made this post before I ever entered this, uh.. debate. Didn't make this one either. Basicaly I know I ain't skeered, and I don't know what a Calico Wayne is.

I was under the assumption that the second number on a jet drive was only a comparison. It was to compare the performance of the unit, after taking into account the greater slip of the jet. Maybe the industry is dropping the comparison. The big jets that use multiple stage pumps don't suffer the slip that single units do and don't use double figures.

Well think about that, a little security would have to be 24/7, and that little security would have to include all the benefits. Where do you draw the line, what about all the areas in and around Branson that contain large crowds and would be much more desirable. The funny thing is that Powersite is probably the least desirable target, and it has security.

I think that after some rethinking of the threat, y'all are right and should defiantly avoid this area, especially the TR tailwater and the Pothole. We appreciate your cooperation in reducing the magnitude of any threat. Thank You

Okay let me address some of these assumptions. When the water came down Tam Sauk, that drop was a little more then the 3' to 45' or so of a Taney breech. You assume that the dam would be completely gone instantly, Shadow Rock and River Run would be full, and BS would be at normal pool. The water wouldn't stop at Barker, but it would be slowed, which would raise the water. BS, like it or not, after all the initial flow, would rise less than a foot. River Run under water, yes, but not from one rain. This all came about over terrorist breeching dams, and the dams here just aren't that attractive, especially Taney. I would like to get a peek at what the river would look like without Powersite, even though thats not possible, I think I would like it. I have some memory of the White before TR, and a lot of memories or the Osage, South Grand, and the Pomme De Terre before Truman, and I liked them better.

Well BS is 45,440 surface acres, which is where the water from Taney would go. Taney is a whopping 2080, and I was being generous with the 20' depth, so do the math. Depending on the level of BS, Powersite could breech and not even flood River Run or Shadow Rock. The only thing that would slow the water would be the turn at Barker.

Don't feel bad Hank, I'm a native and I've never done it in Missouri, close, but no cigar. If we could get about 3 years of average or above rainfall we would probably start to see more of them. I think you need a good population of Smallies to create larger fish, the idea being that the smaller more aggressive fish protect the larger ones.

I may have overestimated If Taney was 20' deep right to its banks, it wouldn't quite make it. 10" maybe? I question the ability to blow TR with hand carried explosives. Short of shaped charges, explosives lose effect when faced with massive structures. Thats why dams are bombed in war, not hit with missiles. Shape charges could destroy the value of the dam, but wouldn't likely bring it down in one shot

GF I wouldn't give up on them, some of my trees are just now showing signs of life. On the other side, the wet winter has my Iris looking better than ever.