Sharps4590

Well son-of-a-gun....I missed this thread completely. I will be watching for the summer swap!!

As with the Little Piney I fish Mill quite a bit also, for the same reason, it's less than 1/2 hour from home. That is a good Mill Creek 'bow. There are quite a few in there but I don't get many of them. In that skinny water they don't attain such size by being dumb. Mill ran pretty good flows all summer thanks to some August thunderstorms, one of which I was over there fishing in...whew...had some really close lightning strikes that day!!!!! Of late, now February, it should be pretty good due to recent rains and the 4-6 inches of snow we had earlier this week. Mill is one of the jewels of the Ozarks.

I fish the Little Piney a lot....cuz it's only 20 minutes from home.....and after living and fising the west for a few years it took me a while to figure it out. Fishing above Lane Springs can be and usually is good. One of the best wild trout I've taken in Missouri came from quite a ways above the campground. From the 63 bridge down to the campground there are 4 springs that enter the creek that I know of, one which is not quite as big as Lane and th others are quite a bit smaller. Just watch for the watercress.

Years ago I used to see a bumper sticker/placard that said something to the effect: Remember the golden rule,"He who has the gold makes the rule". Sad but all too often true.

I concur wholeheartedly.

I agree Al and I should have so stated that it depends on the creek in question. I also agree that given case law the court(s) would most likely agree. Now the question becomes who is willing to spend the money and time to find out? We all know the Danforth's have effectively shut down Spring Creek from pubic access above their property line. I obviously don't know but doubt there is much historical evidence to support that portion of Spring Creek as having been used commercially or publicaly for floating/fishing or navigable for floating logs to market. Anyone care to take on the Danforths? I'm not saying I agree with the current state of affairs, merely that I understand and to me it isn't worth a confrontation to catch a fish. Until there is a state wide ruling I'm afraid it is on a creek by creek basis as far as my understanding goes.

This topic comes up on fishing sites all the time. There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth, angst and hot air spewed forth and not just about Missouri. I've done quite a bit of reading on the subject and I agree that it is a truly vague area in Missouri, mostly because of rumor, propaganda and plain ol' wrong information being put forth as fact. In Missouri a navigable stream does not necessarily mean one that will float a canoe......or stick. To my knowledgeable the only streams/rivers that have been actually declared navigable are the Mississippi, Missouri, Osage, parts of the Gasconade and parts of the Meremac. Navigable in historic use has meant commercial. The float streams, again to my knowledge, fall under a different kind of "navigable" definition. Historical use of a body of water has been used in past court cases to determine "navigability" dating back to when Ozark streams were used to float logs to market. Some cases include specific streams that have been used for floating by individuals and outfitters for so long that it is assumed, and has been subsequently ruled, that they are "navigable".....in the sense that they are available for public use. On the smallish Ozark streams where a landowner owns both banks of a stream they can most assuredly close it off....from any public use, wading or floating.. If they own only one side then all they can control is their property to the middle of the stream and if they have an agreement with the property owner on the other side.....it can all be shut down. In short, just because you can float a canoe or kayak in it or access it from a slab or other crossing does not mean you are within your legal rights. There are all kinds of places to fish legally and frankly I don't find a confrontation with a landowner worth the angst.....and sometimes a person can be dead and right....not an option that I find appealing. In addition, being a landowner myself, I would probably shut it down. I live not far from Rolla and the litter around here is bad, and I hate it, but it isn't any worse than I've seen in several different states. That is NOT justiifcation for the crap we see, merely an observation. I wouldn't put up with other people's trash and filth on my property. I fish around here a lot and I am in agreement that at least locally those who visit to fish are not the culprit of the litter problem, it's local.

Good for you outside. Admirable and honorable efforts. I did most of the same things when we ran cattle. Still ain't buyin' a trout stamp. I provide more than reasonable efforts and monies for the resource, more than my fair share and I don't begrudge that at all, I don't keep and eat them, no stamp. I don't believe in paying according to ones ability to pay. You wanna buy one, good for you. I'm not.

Not a person here knows what other programs I'm involved with regarding Conservation, of any resource. AND ON MY PROPERTY AT MY EXPENSE!!!!!!!!! Selfish...yea, you betcha. Just for the sake of conversation, eric, how many acres of your land have you dedicated to open woodland restoration and what are the costs per acre for that restoration, out of your pocket? You too outsidebend, same question, since you can't seem to justify in your mind my not buying a trout stamp. I don't have that problem in the least. I know what it's cost me to do this ongoing restoration and I don't regret it one diddly darn bit. Oh yes, it's ongoing, just like a monthly payment. I'm glad to be doing it, sharing it with other Master Naturalists and teaching from it. I love doing it because I love these rough, old, worn down Ozark hills and all that resides therein. Don't jump my butt over $7.00, that isn't yours to decide on, with no more knowledge or information than what you possess. I'm angry at this entire thing. I've been demonized, accused of being selfish, all but called unethical and you might as well throw immoral and quasi illegal in the mix too. And not a one of those are based upon ANY fact with the only knowledge being that I fish the Little Piney occasionally and don't buy a trout stamp. How feeble, imprudent and immature. What a few whining wallydraigles. Close the thread now and you can blame it on me....for not buying a trout stamp. Vic

eric, got a burr under your saddle? Of course I've been responsible for the death of trout. How on earth do you think I know the wife and I don't care to eat them? Only big trout I ever caught was a 24 in. 'cutt on the Salt River in Wyoming and yes, it was on a light tippet and took a while to revive but it bolted away like a shot. If it isn't still alive it's because it was caught and eaten or died of old age. That was about 8 years ago. Your insinuations are devoid of knowledge about me or any facts. You're entitled to your opinion, same as me....and yours is worth to me exactly what I paid for it, as mine is to you. You don't know me from Adam. You don't know how I fish, where I fish most often and certainly you don't know what kind and size of fish I catch. I've NEVER gut hooked any kind of fish with any fly and I honestly can't recall ever gill hooking one with a fly but I won't say never and if I have it was a bluegill. You have NO knowledge whatsoever of what I do to aid Conservation with my dollars and in other ways. It's also none of your business what I do with my money. I'll reiterate, your opinion is meaningless to me, it is as dust in the wind. So....you stay on your soap box....I'm goin' fishin'. Oh, and I don't buy #16 caddis. Can't say as to Taney but where I fish you only need a trout stamp if you're going to keep trout and I don't keep any. That came from an Agent when directly questioned by me. Vic

Welcome Jason....and I'm now fishing your two rivers. After 22 years in Jeff. City and 3 in NW Wyoming we moved back to MO to Rolla. Good place to be for a variety of fishing and close to a lot of it. Good luck in your studies and take a little time off to wet a line! Vic

Gary's right......and welcome

I'll second that welcome to the Missouri Ozarks! You do some diggin' and you'll find lots of good spring creek, creek & stream and river fishing here. Scenery aint' bad either. Vic

Mr. duk...that's quite a fish in your pic!!!! Welcome sir! Vic

Only one I can think of might be Hilkemeyers up at Freeburg. However, I don't know how far upriver they go.

Kinda hard, as in impossible, for me to gut hook a trout with a #16 caddis. Neither the wife nor I care to eat trout so I'm not payin' for a stamp. But, back to the original post...yes, that burns me too. I see it frequently on the Blue Ribbon areas here around Rolla. I've met a couple people fishing with worms and explained the regs to them. One guy had his kids with him and he wasn't fishing himself. He was also parked where there wasn't a sign so I don't believe he really knew. They quit when I explained things, thanked me whereupon I suggested some other public waters close to Rolla where they could fish with worms. He was a nice guy and we had a good conversation about kids and fishing. The others played dumb....they knew. They had to walk right by the sign. I explained the law in as nice a way as I could then attempted to explain why. They got snotty and I said fine, I'll walk back up the the truck and call the Conservation agent and they could explain to him. They left in a huff. And the litter pigs...makes ya wanna hang them from a yardarm. I was over at the Rt. 8 bridge on the Meremac this morning, just above the park, and picked up a garbagebag full of beer cans and fast food resturant trash just in the parking lot. I absolutely cannot understand why people are such complete idiots, uncaring and inconsiderate of others when it comes to their trash. I'll turn litter pigs in at the drop of a hat. Vic

MST....wanna go fishin' with an "old fart"? I need a good laugh... Vic

Welcome sir!!! And as with others the "eatin' 9" smallies" got me fer a minute there!!!

X2 what OTF said

Another PM sent

You were at the very tail end of the trout water and it depends on how long it's been since they stocked it. I don't know the last time. You have to get in there before the worm drowners and power bait users cuz the fish don't last very long over there...rules don't matter much. There are some good smallies in there but I usually find them farther down than Newburg. It's cleared up a lot since Friday and gone down some judging from your pictures. I usually do ok over there but not today. I guess they just weren't biting because my wife went about the same time this morning that I did only she went over to the neighbors lake to catch us a mess of bluegill. She got skunked too..and she almost always catches fish. Vic

Got up early this morning....drove to Little Piney...forgot camera....creek very full....fell in....got skunked....came home Still had a great time! Vic

Hmmm...after posting that I see I've been a member since '05. Evidently it was me who was lost and not Ozark Anglers!!!! Sorry fella's! Vic

I just found OzarkAnglers again. I thought it died but obviously such is not the case and I'm glad for that!!! I was a member in years past and nothing has really changed with me except that I'm older, probably fatter and certainly more gray in the hair and beard. The long rod, and 99% of the time it's bamboo loaded with a silk line, is all I use these days. Still love it. I tie my own flys, like to canoe, kayak and camp, hunt...with muzzleloaders, real muzzleloaders as in flintlocks, longbow or recurve bow, build my own arrows, cast my own rifle and handgun projectiles and reload my ammo for my black powder cartridge Shiloh Sharps, Ballard and double rifles. Vintage sports cars still hold a place in my heart and there's a few of them in the stable and a new interest is sailing my 18 ft. Chrysler Buccaneer. Lifelong Missouri resident except for time out for the U. S. Air Force and 3 years in NW Wyoming. We've been back in Missouri for 5 1/2 years now. I live in the Rolla area where I'm an electrical contractor. Married to the same wonderful woman for 31 years with two grown and married sons but no grandkids yet. Mostly I fish the Little Piney, Mill Creek and the upper Meramac above the Rt. 8 bridge....way above the bridge and make a few forays over to Spring Creek and down to the Big Piney most years. Can't handle the trout parks as I like my solitude and don't handle rudeness very well. I have access to a couple new spots on the Bourbeuse and intend to try them this year. Smallies are my favorite but I ain't good at catching them. Trout are fun and I fish for them quite a bit. Bluegills....now what can anyone say bad about bluegills...I probably catch more of them than anything else as the wife loves to fish the neighbors little lake. Sure glad to see Ozark Anglers again. Good fishin' everyone! Vic

I have a friend/customer who lives on the Meramac between the Rt. 8 bridge and ......what is it, Indian Ford or Scotts Ford?....anyway, he says the number of 10 inch smallies coming out of that river, on that stretch, is appalling. I live near Rolla and I can tell you for a fact that for a lot of folks, if it's big enough to stink a skillet they kill it. I fish both Pineys some and during the summer I see folks fishing with baits that aren't legal where they're fishing. I always call MDC too and give license numbers if they are to be had. In my opinion the smallies could handle the otter pressure but they can't handle the otters and the killers. I agree with brownieman, sure wish MDC paid as much attention to smallies as they do trout. Vic