Mark

I was keeping an open mind because I didn't know the facts. Thanks to all for sharing.

All true, but if there is some truth that the feds have been discriminating on the use of the federal land for grazing purposes, then the protesters have some weight to their argument. Not sure we have the entire story yet.

I agree with others on this issue - I immediately thought it was total BS for the two men to be sent back to prison after being released after serving the original sentence. If they did not serve the minimum required originally, that is on the shoulders of the original judge. I have been hesitant to condemn the protesters because I didn't know all of the facts, and maybe still don't. If this is a harmless act of civil disobedience, I applaud the guts to do it. But there are people in the NW US that are militants, anti government, even racists, so I don't know if that is the case with all of the protesters, some of them, or a small percentage. And I also recall Ruby Ridge and Waco, and how that all turned out and is a scar on our nation, even if the victims were wrong, they didn't deserve to die. And I may be wrong, but I can't help but agree with some national journalists who make the claim that if this wasn't a white group of protesters, the situation would be viewed as different and the law enforcement reactions would be different. Finally, the ranchers claim that there has been discrimination in how the BLM has dictated who and how much the ranchers can use the fed land for grazing. I don't know if that is true, but I am suspicious enough of the federal govt to, at the very least, not rule it out.

Question: How did the fed govt acquire all of the fed land? Has it been fed land since the birth of the state of Oregon? I read that one issue that ranchers have is the questionable methods the govt used to acquire the land. Oregon is a big state, and if half the land is fed owned, that's alot of land that the state is not receiving any tax revenue on. Is any of the land ever for sale? Or is the land designated fed land for eternity? Trying to understand the entire situation.

Isn't the crux of the matter that the feds are restricting the ranchers freedom to graze on public grounds. I did read that 1/2 of al land in Oregon is federal public ground that draws no property taxes. I had no idea it was that much land.

I find this story so interesting. I try to look at both sides of the controversy. And I understand the rugged individualism of the people of the Northwest. While I agree with the approach taken so far by law enforcement of just letting the protesters be, not antagonizing, and remaining peaceful, I have to agree with a couple of national reporters who have written stories that made the point that if the protest group were someone other than white, conservative ranchers who had overtaken a government facility, this situation would be handled differently than just a civil disobedience. I think we do have different standards for different groups. I guess this will fall under the political discussion category that is not suppose to be discussed on OAF, but what conservation issue is not political.

We saw a couple locals we recognized who were camping on the river, fishing, and deer hunting last weekend. Talked a minute and they had a doe hanging up in camp. We didn't ask them but it got us wondering - what are the hunting regs while on the river? Such as; can you hunt on any of the federally owned land along the river? can you hunt out of they boat? can you actually shoot out of the boat? or do you have to be on land to shoot? and then can you use the boat to haul out?is there a restricted distance from the water you have to be to shoot a deer? a squirrel? can you duck hunt?, we guessed you could and shoot ducks from boat. They weren't hiding the hanging deer so obviously all was legal. Is hunting on most rivers along federally owned land legal? None of us hunt, so no worries here. Sounds like an ideal place to hunt, and get in some fishing at same time.

Nice fish!

Kim Anderson can coach if he is given time to build his team. But college sports is more about recruiting now instead of Xs and Os. And he has to land a prized recruit like Michael Porter, Jr. to get other top Missouri HS players and beyond to follow him. Corey Tate will figure big in the next couple of years in recruiting. But being Kim is cut out of the Norm Stewart clothe, I believe he wants a nucleus of players from Missouri, and they can be found. I don't think Anderson will be given enough time.

Guess I am not following. Why would State Park System be responsible for staffing and running a USFS campground? Agree -Whitten and Turner South could use a few more campsites instead on new development. And what is wrong with campsites at Riverton access? I realize many boats/canoes put in and take out there, but it never seems as crowded as Whitten. Never have understood why no camping allowed at Riverton.

Thanks Brian, good to know. I am not retiring until may 2018 though. And still shopping for my travel trailer. Agree that it would be ideal camp host job. But I will definitely keep it in mind for retirement. Guess I never thought it thru about the Forest Service owning Greer CG. Sure wish it was a little more developed with electric/water/shower. I know someone (probably Brian) told me on here once before about the copper being stolen from electric boxes at Greer. What a shame.

Maybe I am just being selfish, but I plan to retire in a couple years and have a small travel trailer. My days of tent camping are about over, and I would like somewhere on the Eleven Point to park the trailer occasionally, and have electricity/water/shower/restroom facility. Instead of new development, how about a renovation at Greer CG. Or Turner Mill North - which is virtually always vacant. I understand that there use to be electric at Greer CG and vandals destroyed the boxes. But wouldn't trying it again at a developed place be cheaper than trying someplace new, and make more sense. Maybe hire a CG host to keep an eye on things. I would do a month or so tour after I retire for free electric/water/camp spot. I imagine other retirees would do the same. And wouldn't most of you rather have people using the restroom at the campground restroom or in their RV than on the gravel bars? I do think it is a shame that there is no where for elderly people with RVs to enjoy the river. Those are the types of people that won't hurt a dang bit of everyone's concern over primitive and isolated remoteness. And they own it as much as the rest of us.

Am I intrepreting the Post Dispatch article correclty? Would the Frederick Creek Ranch and the Building for Babies land combined be in the 5000 acres neighborhood? Somebody in one of the controlling agencies is pushing this hard.

Thanks for the advice, gang. I had my buddy read this thread, and it went a long way to ease his fears. He wants to give it a try. Looking forward to seeing some new waters.

Thanks I'll pass along.

LittleRed - maybe you can help me with a problem? My buddy has a nice jet prop that he uses exclusively on the Eleven Point. He has only had the boat for two years, and stays on the Eleven Point mainly because he knows the river well enough to avoid mishaps. He is apprehensive about the Current River because he doesn't know the river> I totally understand not wanting to hit a rock and punch a hole in his new boat, or suck up gravel in shallow water. What section of the river would be good fishing and have deep enough water that bottoming out won't happen - I realize you can hit a submerged rock anytime. Any sections of the river safer than others. I have only been on the Current 3-4 times myself. Last time was section right above Eminence. May try to get him on the Current in a couple weeks. I am thinking below Eminence after Jacks Fork enters. Shouldn't that section hold lots of water. Thanks in advance.

Sorry Gavin, not into "Six Flags of Trout Fishing" experience. Don't get the excitement of trout parks where they dump fish in daily by the barrels and then people stand shoulder to shoulder trying to get pellet fed fish to bite at anything that looks edible. Went one time, that was enough when someone cast right over my line like I wasn't even there. No thanks. Sorry for the rant, Gavin. Leave the trout parks to the city slickers!!!

I also wondered what was the difference between the two. I guess the whole issue could be resolved for me if electric could be restored at Greer CG, but thieves and vandals put an end to that. What a shame! My interest all along has been someplace for RV hookups. I have older retired siblings with RVs who like places like Greer CG, but electric is a must. They are not into roughing it and want to be right on the water to get their feet wet during the day. Plus I am in the market for a small travel trailer and would love to park it on the Eleven Point for a few days. Dang hoodlums always have to ruin things!!

OK thanks, I assumed it would have to be by Arkansas line to be on water's edge but wasn't sure,

Brian, just curious, but mentioned that a 200-300 acre resort/RV park/developed campground would be ideal. I agree. But how would a person do so with the easement issue? I know that the private ground starts near Riverton, and seems to be a checkerboard of what is private and public from there on down river. I am assuming the easement restrictions apply to private as well as public. You mentioned that the Wild and Scenic Riverways includes the Frederick Creek area. Does it end soon thereafter? Do the easement restrictions end near the Narrows? Would that be the only option for such a place? I am surprised that no one has undertaken such a project.

I've been going to the EP for past 16 years. Summer holidays and maybe 6-8 weekends in the summer could be called crowded. Summer weekdays are rarely what could be called moderately crowded. We learned to go during the week in the summer, and most trips I would describe as light traffic. Many days when you might see 20-30 other people all day long. Vast majority are not fishing. Mostly families, and very rarely the party floatillas. Locals get out in the evenings after work in the jetboats. Trips in the spring and fall when school is in session, and you practically have the river to yourself. The river is for everyone to enjoy. It don't bother me one bit when on most trips I see maybe 2-3 canoes go by every half hour or so, and almost always they are a family with kids, 4 buddies, or young couples. Outside of a 100 mile radius, very few people have heard of the Eleven Point. I live an hour south of St. Louis, and when I tell someone I am going floating on the Eleven Point River, the reply is always "Where's that?" Yes, I enjoy the solitude as much as the next guy, but have maybe only had 3-4 trips in 16 years that the river was crowded, and those were holidays and summer weekends. And I have learned to even enjoy those trips - meeting interesting people and admiring the bikinis!! The Eleven Point River is far from being a crowded river.

SSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Although gigging season has the fish spooked right now.

Very good point, SpoonDog.

Thanks for the correction Brian. If no development is planned, the only ones to benefit will be hunters. Will the state try to override the easement issue and develop? If not, I am starting to side with the opposition. What good is the purchase doing the majority of Missourians? Brian, I like your idea of a private 200-300 acre resort/RV/cabins/campground type park located somewhere along the EP. My friends and I have often discussed the same thing. But how would someone get around the easement issue for such a project? The Greer Springs Campground is the only place I know of on the EP with a nice developed campground, and RV camping is limited because of the lack of electric (which it once had but thieves and vandals ruined that). And there are no cabins at Greer. It baffles me that there is no such place on the EP. I would think it would be a gold mine after the substantial initial investment of building such a place. Considering the low income of Oregon County, why would the locals be so opposed to some kind of development? It would be so nice to walk outside a cabin and be on the river. The county is missing a golden opportunity to pump some much needed revenue into the local economy. The Jacks Fork near Eminence has private resorts. Are they outside of the easement area? I see such a develpment as a good thing and something people would use, including my group. Is it because local people just don't want crowds visiting the area, ruining the primitive nature of the area, I don't necessarily buy that argument as there is plenty of untouched riverway all along the EP. and there already are weekends in the summer where the river is somewhat crowded. It doesn't make sense to me that local people are so opposed to development that would benefit the entire area.

Too funny!! I'm guessing the statutory rape laws in some parts of the Ozarks are more of a suggestion.