Bill Butts

Jay, What do you mean by "false run"? Are you referring to their attempt at a spawning run, or times when they move into the river prior to a spawning run? All 3 of the Striper Family members (stripers, hybrids and whites) congregate (called "staging") near the tributary mouths for some weeks prior to ascending the rivers in the reproductive mode. However, they are known to run up into the rivers (usually at night or dark rainy days) for brief times to feed and return to the lake and that is sometimes referred to as a false run. All 3 species are known to do this. The other "false run" you might be referring to is the fact that the stripers and hybrids don't successfully reproduce when they go through the spawning process in the Beaver Lake fishery. Stripers need an average of about 80 miles of free-flowing river for their neutral-bouyancy eggs to drift and hatch. Hybrids are sexually fertile though normally thought of as sterile, and there are some limited reports (fisheries biologists) of successful reproduction in AR, SC and TX. White bass obviously do reproduce there, and practically everywhere they are found, and are known as perhaps the closest thing to a perfect gamefish from a fisheries biologist perspective (no hatchery, no stocking, great fighter, very prolific.....kinda like rabbits). Probably more than you wanted to know. They are definitely worth your time and attention in the spring. Lots of factors affect their movement and therefore your chances of success, so I would suggest you keep in close touch with local fishing shops for the latest info (daily updates). Hope this is helpful.

Gentlemen~ This thread has been a very spirited, interesting and humorous debate. Thanks to all for your continuing input, opinions, passions and (for the most part) cool heads. At this hour, the total views of this topic is almost 1500. Amazing! I'd like to shift gears and ask your opinions about regulations in the upper river. What do you think the result would be if the MDC made the stretch of river from the Dam to the Lookout Hole (prox. 1 mile) a No Kill Zone? I'm not suggesting it or promoting it, but I am asking because I would like to see this awesome fishery get even better, IF it is possible without making too many fishermen and business owners mad in the process. What would be the result in 3, 5 or 10 years? Would the average size be larger in the upper river? What if a No-Kill Zone was established all the way to Fall Creek, or Branson? Most of the beautiful big Browns and Rainbows that congregate in the upper river in the fall and winter spend the majority of their lives somewhere in the other 20 miles of river/lake from the Lookout Hole to Powersite Dam. Is it realistic to think or hope there could ever be 10 times or a 100 times the trophy fish in our beloved river/lake? If you've fished the river for 30 years or longer, you know it IS possible because there were many times more trophy Rainbows (prior to the introduction of Browns) in the river in the 60's to mid-70's. It was truly World Class. What we enjoy in this fishery, today, is very special but it is not World Class, yet. It would be awesome if management of the river/lake gradually brought it back to that lofty status. Your thoughts?

Phil, What's with the little one liner that appears below the profile picture on posts? Is there a way to eliminate or customize them? For a while, the one on mine said "talking a lot but not saying much" (you didn't let my wife enter that did you? ha), but now it says "you may be getting somewhere" or something like that. Bill

Phil, I would say the # of views of your post would indicate that just the word "gallery" is going to get attention. Galleries are fun to view and sometimes drool over, but for me there is always that "wonder how and where that fish was caught" thought. Could a gallery be set up that provided the format for including a little story with it? Heck, just a Forum category might work. You could state in the intro that a brief (or not so brief) explanation of the angler's "experience" is encouraged to be included with the photo. There are some great stories that accompany pictures of small fish, too, like someone's first fly rod caught something, a special trip, etc. Wouldn't that work? BB

During years of extreme low water, which fortunately don't come very often, the river channel from the Dam down quite a ways was a very small stream and almost always full of trout. Has anyone experienced this recently? I haven't been down there since the lake has been drawn down so low, so I would appreciate knowing what low water opportunities currently exist. Thanks.

KC, Any river with a White Bass spring run has the critical variables of water temp and flow (only bad thing is high muddy water). Both Sac rivers are somewhat murky when normal and that is a key factor that makes the whites pretty comfortable in the river, since they are open water lake fish that are almost constantly on the move. I've observed fish in very clear water streams like Beaver Creek or the Kings River have a tendency not to hang out in the river to feed for very long after their spawning objective is complete. The Sac rivers and others similar have runs that usually last for several weeks, but that also includes multiple "waves" of fish during that time. Does this make sense? I would think that most of the fisheries in KS would be mostly murky, too. I am sure you will start seeing fishing report posts by late March, but in the average years the very best time for the spring run fish is from early April thru mid-May. Hope this is helpful. Let me know if any of this is foggy, or if you have further questions. BB

KC, Greers is a beautiful lake and an awesome fishing lake for many species, particularly walleye and hybrid stripers. Here is a link for a guide I found. The photos on his home page are awesome of walleye and hybrids. http://www.burkesguideservice.com Greers holds World Records for Walleye and Hybrid Striper, and the Little Red River below the Dam is where the current world record Brown Trout was caught. I think wise advice would be to get down there as soon and as often as you can, especially if you have free lodging with your buddy. Please post your experiences on that great fishery, when appropriate. BB

Kelly, I wasn't acquainted with your father in law but they were a very financially sound company so I am sure he had a lot to do with that. The best opportunity I can suggest for you to expand your horizons outside of KS would be the Sping River. We've discussed this some already. I doubt you will find more catchable Whites than in that river in the spring. The AR River holds lots of great opportunites for wild (not stocked, though that isn't a big deal as far as fighting quality) Striped Bass from below Kaw Lake all the way down and across Arkansas. The stretches below Keystone and Kaw hold resident feeding fish all year. In MO, the closest opportunities are the Sac and Little Sac Rivers above Stockton Lake for whites which are very average in size. The James River between Galena and the confluence with Table Rock Lake holds some of the very largest Whites, some over 4#, in the Ozark Region. For most of the above, the month of April and first half of May are the prime weeks. That gives you some opportunites to ponder.

KC, Both! If you are familiar with that watershed, it is very diverse and long. Do you fish part or all of its stretches? BB

Arkamo, I am surprised about your lack of success on the L. Sac float. Apparently one of those days when they had "lock-jaw". You are absolutely correct about the Niangua. I wouldn't trade it for maybe any other smallmouth river in this state. There are some other good ones, but from headwaters to lake water it would be hard to beat. Another good thing is that we don't have to worry about talking about it on the forum because there is so much water and the fishing pressure is not too great, unlike many of our smaller streams that ARE very sensitive to fishing pressure.

Jbird, Pay close attention to what Brian is explaining, it's right on the mark. He's taking right through Flyfishing 101. You will find all kinds of funky loop to loop and loop splice techniques out there, but my firm belief is that about everything else is a stepping stone of frustration until you take the time to master the needle nail knot connection. It's not hard at all. Just takes some practice. Take an old fly line (or ask for a few feet of it from a shop) and practice 10-15 of them with good light (and magnifying glasses for those it applies to, like me) at home. You'll be doing them for your buddies in no time. There is another splice kit designed by Dave Whitlock that is also very good, but different than what Brian showed. Dave's kit also provides you with the stuff to do knotless connections from leader to fly line which are sometimes great for lines up to a 6 wt. Very smooth. BTW, Brian~ I have a technique for doing needle nail knots from backing to fly line that is very slick. Are you familiar with it? I've been doing it for over 25 years and rarely see anyone that knows it. Let me know if you'd like to see it sometime. BB

Excellent wisdom from Wayne. I totally agree on the choice of Renzetti. Very reliable and because they are the actual manufacturer there should never be an issue with getting parts down the road if necessary. (ditto the issue, when it comes to fly reels). I've been tying on the Traveler model for years. I will add that while I agree that the portable model is the best all-around so you can set it or take it anywhere, I use the clamp on my home tying bench with the addition of the extension arm to get it closer to me so I don't have the tendency to lean toward the bench therefore fatiguing my back. The clamp, arm and other accessories can always be purchased later. You can view the Renzetti website at www.renzetti.com (the pedestal model is $159.95) Oh, another thing about this type vise. It is a rotary-style vise meaning you can turn the fly at any angle (full 360 rotation) to reach the under or back side. Very important in this era of fly tying because we tie so many types of flies. You will love it. BB

guys, it appears there is some confusion on where is being discussed, but just to clarify one thing......there WAS a dock just above the mouth of Swan Creek for many years but was removed years ago. When water conditions are right there are some great gravel shoals within walking distance upstream for walleye and white bass in the spring. my 2 cents (my wife says i have NO cents/sense) BB

Brian, That is definitely a classic tied Light Cahill. Also appears to be authentic wood duck flank used in the wings. One of the all time great tradional dries. Bill Butts

KC, Thanks for your inquiry. There are no special secret spots within driving distance for you, that I know. The Niangua is a great and very underutilized river for serious smallmouth fishing and other species. Certainly worthy of your time and dedication to learn and conquer. Lots of floaters in the warmer months, but few skilled fishermen. Have you fished the lower Niangua below Tunnel Dam for whites or stripers in the spring? That is certainly one very good fishery but will take work on your part to master. Do you have a boat? Kick-boat or pontoon? Canoe or kayak? There are several other tributaries of LOZ that receive runs of spring whites, etc. but I don't really know them will enough to detail for you. The tailwater below Truman Dam is an incredible smorgasboard of all the striper species plus much more but that is big water and not usually the flyfishers preference to attempt. The lower Sac River above Osceola is a very good fishery for whites, hybrids and crappie but requires a boat. La Cygne Lake 55 miles south of KC has a warm water discharge that attracts hybrids during the cold months and I am told the tailwater below it, the Mairis De Cygnes River, also holds some large Hybrids pretty much all year. Further south, the Sac and Little Sac Rivers, both the primary tribs of Stockton Lake, are very productive and predictable white bass spawning run fisheries (no hybrids) in the spring. There are many other good fisheries for whites and hybrids on the KS side, like Milford and others and I'm sure you could network with some other area fishermen and maybe on this forum to learn more about them. As far as tackle, I probably already suggested reading my post on the Forum under the Striper Family/Fly Tackle and Flies. If not, you should find that helpful. OK, there's some initial input for you. Questions? When it comes to fishing for any of the Striper Family it is vital to network, network, network. Keep in touch. BB

Brian, Oh my gosh! What a monster! You know, that kinda looks like a big spoonbill without the bill. Think it could be the Osage or Neosho Rivers? Just kiddin. He's probably telling his buddies he caught it on a parachute adams. BB

Kelly, Sure I know where Parsons is and have been there and through there many times. There is a large printing business there, Sun Graphics, that I've been to several times, and my son was recruited by the baseball coach at Labette CC a few years back (didn't sign). Have you taken the time to read my posts in the Striper Family topics? I'm wondering if they are so far down the page that many are not finding them. ?? Let me know what questions you have and which direction you are interested in traveling to broaden your horizons. Keep in touch. BB

Kelly, I have several really good white bass rivers close to where I live and for many years it was hard to drive past them to reach rivers that held opportunities for stripers and hybrids. I realized what I'd been missing when I hooked my first Hybrid even though it was only about 4#. They are like catching white bass on steroids, and of course get much larger, commonly 6 to 10#. This forum might shorten your learning curve to finding and catching some of these great fish without driving too far from home. Where do you live? Perhaps I can offer some suggestions for other opportunities for you to consider. Keep in touch. BB

KC, You will find that catching whites, stripers and hybrids is a real rush. Before I provide some specific rivers for you to focus on for spring spawning runs or lakes to find them in summer and fall, should I assume you live somewhere in the KC area? (You may say duh isn't that obvious, but I've seen obvious names like that but they grew in the the city and moved hundreds of miles away at some point.) There are lots of great streams and lakes for all the Striper Family species so I'll try to provide info that is as close to your home area as possible. If you would, go to the Striper Family category on this forum and enter a new topic question for this under "where do you fish.......". OK? (will be helpful to others too) You'll find some suggested tackle guidelines for all 3 species in that category, too. Keep in touch. BB

Kelly, Your input is greatly appreciated and helpful to develop a better understanding of the Neosho. Your dad's wisdom also applies to about every stream I've fished for the Striper Family species. They will really shoot up a river when there is a rise from fresh rainwater, which usually murks or muddies the clarity, and the very best time to hit it is as it is clearing. I've never fished as far up as Baxter Springs, but that sounds interesting and a spot to try this year. Have you seen or caught hybrids or stripers up that far? Keep in touch.

Greg, A canoe or kayak is not absolutely necessary but the very best way to access and fish the river. It is a small stream during the summer and fall months of normal rainfall, with a nice murky color but definitely not muddy. You should know that if you are allergic to poison ivy, like I mentioned previously, I think some kind of watercraft would be essential. Even a pontoon craft would be very good. There are also lots of stretches with very tall mud banks so you would need to be crossing back and forth and maybe walking some of the longer slower stretches. Wading is very nice, mostly gravel, but the banks are dirt. No felt soles are needed. I wear the aqua-stealth soles during spring fishing but for smallmouth in the warmer months some good sandals or any decent wet-wading shoes are adequate. You will love the fishing and solitude on this little beauty. Good luck. BB

Hello Fox, Just spent some time studying your website, specifically your special motor and some of your baitfish and worm patterns. Very nice site and I would highly suggest that any fly fisher spend some serious time reading and considering this valuable info that you have obviously spent many years developing, whether they are trout or smallmouth fishers or anything else in the Ozarks. We have found that even whites and stripers/hybrids enjoy something besides shad. I would if I was one of those fish. Man, have you ever accidentally snagged a shad and had to hold it in your hand to unhook it? Your hand will stink at least the rest of that day and maybe the next. We've found that some patterns that most closely suggest the river minnow colors, and crayfish, are very good producers. I will have some questions for you after I spend some more time studying. Thanks again, BB

Al, Do I recall correctly that before Spence's retirement he spent some time working on the smallmouth fisheries and regs? I got to know him pretty well during his years as the cold water guru. Is Kevin Meneau officed at the research center in Columbia? Thanks for the name. On the stripers/hybrids, it is just something that is hard to describe until you have the experience of having one instantly run 50-70 yards on the hookset. I suppose as close to the aggressive mentality of saltwater species as anything we have in freshwater. You might read my posts in the new Striper Family topics Phil and I set up. Thanks again for your contributions to the Forum. Bill Butts

Al, Meant to mention previously how much I enjoy your artwork. I'm sure few of the forum guys realize who you are, but for those interested in some amazing fish and wildlife artwork I'm going to suggest they treat themselves by checking out your website at www.alagnew.com Wow!! Many years ago I was priveleged to be invited to be one of the judges for artwork entries for the annual MDC Trout Stamp. I cannot recall which year it was but I think it was 1986 the special anniversary year for the MDC Commission. Anyway, your entry was the winner and was the one that portrayed both the old days (stocking fish from milk cans) and modern day (the addition of Brown Trout) trout fishing in our great state. Wasn't that 86? I appreciate your comments about smallmouth fishing and I know you have considerable experience on many of our rivers. Didn't you used to fish with Joel Vance or Spence Turner, or both? Haven't heard much about Spence since he retired. I assumed he would continue his writing. Do you have any buddies that flyfish (or use other light tackle) for Stripers/Hybrid Stripers and/or White Bass? I'm always trying to network with guys that have that passion. Some of the best flyfishers in this area that fish for those great fish don't even use a computer or email. Thanks for participating in the Forum and gracing artlovers with beautiful images of your work. BB

Brian, I apologize for not replying to your post. I must not have hit the right settings to receive reply notices on this topic. Did you see the report from Steve (Okieflyfisher53) today on the AR River? It is in the new Striper Family category under "where do you fish....." I am very tempted to run down there very soon. If the water and weather conditions hold, it should be predictably good. Do you have some striper/hybrid tackle, a 7 or 8? and a sink-tip 3 for it? I'll get you into some of those brutes, if you're serious about going sometime. Keep in touch. BB