Chief Grey Bear

So basically it is, for all intents and purposes, already a C&R area, you just want more fish put in it to pump your numbers? You are right about how wooly it is. Short of building access to the area, I don't think there is any way the trout truck could get to it. Which brings up another point. After Coldwater stated that the blue red and white ribbon areas were picked based on habitat, I then thought of the area from the new bridge to Shoal and there is no reason this is not Blue Ribbon territory. You can't find better habitat quality water for trout. That is just text book water for trout! In fact it is so darn wild the locals will only hit it near the two access points. And you know, the more I think about it, how about a White Ribbon section from the mill dam to the new bridge and Red Ribbon from the new bridge to Shoal????? Bet you never thought I would post that did ya! Is there any other areas that have to color codes back to back??? Maybe this could be an experimental area??? We could still have good stockings near the mill and get some roamers down stream. And red ribbon still gets a few stockings per year. And that would be better in my book than blue ribbon.

You have had plenty of opportunities to bring this up. You didn't have to wait 155 post. On paper it does sound like a great idea. But Capp's is only stocked in 3 areas. In the park, at the lower bridge and in one spot in between. For the C&R that you want to establish, you are taking away over 80% of the stream and 2/3 of the stocked area. I just don't think that is fair to those that come there to take home some fish since that is why the creek was established in the first place. And then if you put a C&R season on there like at Hickory, you have now shut out those that want to keep trout as it is only stocked 5 times per season and that would only be during the C&R season. The bait fishermen only hit two of those spots with any regularity. That being the park and the lower bridge. Pretty much everthing in between is just as you want it. As well as from the lower bridge to the concfluence with Shoal. That is still the vast majority of the creek.

But that only last a week or two at best. Then it is back to "athentic" trout fishing.

It was really something wily. You missed seeing a really good looking boat that Zack brought up. Just gorgeous. I want to take this time to personally thank each and everone of you that made the trek. We again had more food than we knew what to do with. I know I had 3 bowls of chili. I hope that all that made and those that were not able to, will come again next spring. DD'sMC looks like you caught a really nice fish. I don't ducky posing with one that big! Jeremy that was nice double you got for yourself. And the boys had a really good time every time we stopped. Hey Buzz, watch out for icebergs!

I have to say I agree with you ness. "Better" is a relitive term. I wouldn't discount White Ribbon from 6" parr marked, stream bred fish though. You may be surprized what you may find.

That is what I was saying earlier, take the challange. We all like to catch fish, me included but, I like to shake it up a bit too. Does targeting the easy fish make you feel like a better fisherman. And I don't mean you personally. Well, I didn't mean with bait. Point was there are different types of fishermen and they usually stay with the type they like to do the most.

You are right. And I agree. I got to thinking about it later after I posted and you are right, habitat had a lot to do with it. It does offer different skill levels per sa. But I would like to add I don't see or hear of a lot of die hard fly fisherman hitting the white ribbon sections, in fact some on here talk like those waters are beneath them. Nor do I see a lot of baiters hitting the Blue Ribbon to see what it is all about. That certainly has no scientific basis to it, just an observation. I do believe that trout can maintain in about any Ozark stream. And I beleive that they could sustain in most smaller Ozark streams. Uless we have mild winters, there shouldn't be much of a problem with getting the water temps to the optimal 57* for rainbows to have a successful spawn. I think browns need 53* for a successful spawn if I remember correctly.

It has always been my thought that the difference in the Blue, Red and White was to appease the different skill levels of the fishermen. Not so much the characteristics of the stream. I would venture to say that is the basis for the development of the different managment levels. I have nothing to base that on, it is just the way I viewed it.

Quit stroking your ego. This is a public forum.

Oh, crap, I fish outside your parameters.

Great pics Zack! What a great trip. I think everyone caught at least one fish. Cancel that. Little Bear just told me the fabulous Wheat came up empty. Wheat got some great pics I hope he will post. He always comes up with some great pics to document events. I want to thank everyone that showed up. It was just a great day to be on the river. An oh man the grub! I don't think anyone left hungry. I know I didn't. I can't wait until spring and we do it all again!

I have never seen anyone change horses in the middle of the stream more than you. You always change the basis of the discussion to suit your comments. And how many times have you asked me to provide evidence? And when the shoe is one the other foot you say do your own research. That is the comment of a beaten man! BOO YAA! I tried to stop this horse beating a couple of post ago, but you have yet to put down you paddle.

OK, fair enough. I don't understand why they are not growing larger than 12" though. They have been there plenty long enough to grow into fairly large, decent size fish. And if they did get into the, say, 2 or even 3 pound range and you caught that size on a somewhat consistant basis, would you enjoy them a little more? I understand catching 12" and down is a pain. It can drive you nuts catching them all day! Well, a person has to have a little fun don't they???? And I used those skills. You should try it next time. I think you will find that smallmouth miles far exceed spot miles in this state. Your above quote implied that spring waters in Missouri are 45*. And that is false. We are not talking spring branchs and where trout were once stocked. The vast majority of stocking by the MDC today are in waters that were good smallmouth waters. You show the proof it wasn't. Where did you pull those numbers from? And I too have caught trout and smallmouth from the same waters. The difference there is the trout had no choice in the matter. All other senario's came way by natural choices, not man.

Sorry to here you won't be coming wily. It's always a hoot when you're there! The weather is going to be great for tomorrow!

Isn't it funny that this little piece of advice for a fellow forum angler, when turned around has caused all of this. WOW! I think I will bow out now. It has been a hoot. But we have drifted far from the original post and hijacked this thread. Well played men. I am more than confident that we will pick it up again at a later date.

Really? Have you read what you have been saying??? There is ZERO reality in that quote above. That reeks of a true card carrying republican conservitive! No reality, no truth! These are bass and they have been around about the same length of time. You make is sound like the Old and New Testiment. Uh oh!

As I asked before, I would like to view some factual numbers on this. I am not disputing what is happening. I just think some of the numbers may be a little exaggerated. And possibly rightly so. We all have a case to make. Spotted bass appear to be on the move. But even at that, there are thousands of miles of pure smallmouth waters in the Ozarks that will not be touched in our or our childrens life time by the spotted bass. On a fishing trip last weekend, we caught numerous spots in the 1.5 - 2lb range. I will admit that a 18 incher would be rare for a river but, I caught a handful that went over 3lbs, so that would be right in that area.

I have been doing that. You just don't happen to agree. You don't follow along so well do ya? Since you like putting words in my mouth and claiming that I said things that I didn't, I want to see the quote from me that states spotted bass have no impact on the range of native smallmouth? Can you find that for me??? BS anecdotes? Armchair guesswork? I am not seeing any hard evidence to corroborate the numbers your team keeps tossing out. There are no 45* springs in Missouri. All we have seen is during this discussion is numbers that Al proclaimed to be accurate. As I stated in the previous post and you conveniently passed over, was I don't dispute what is happening. I do take exception to some of the number being tossed out like candy at a parade. I wouldn't eagerly eat the candy without inspecting it first. So now you want to split hairs between primary and secondary food sources? That was never the arguement. And you are basing you arguement on a guess? Let me tell you in all my years of floating, I have found largemouth and smallmouth in the same waters. Largmouth do not stick to backwaters. You can find them in all areas of the stream as well as smallmouth. And unless we are having a heat wave, good luck on finding water much warmer than 70*. Bingo!

If that is what you believe, then I now understand why you are not catching any. I know you know better than what you just posted. That post reeks of someone desperate. I am all for a good debate but that was as weak as that crap Outside Bend has been posting. 1. Trout are stocked in what was good smallmouth waters. 2. Spots have not taken over smallmouth habitat. They are co-existing. 3. Trout eat the same food smallmouth do. Smallmouth do not ignore minnows, crawdads, and other forage. 4. All bass eat the same type food. 5. Trout are not biologically confined to any part of any stream. They can and do alot of roaming. 6. I have never caught a spot and any head water of any stream. I don't think you have either.

Oh heck they are a blast to catch. They fight every bit as hard as any smallmouth. And without the use of the current. I don't see why they won't easily get into the 15-18 inch range. With all that food you say is out there, sounds like there is plenty to go around for everyone. And the trout/spot analogy, it works perfectly and that is what bugs you guy's. I bet you wish you wouldn't have given me that little tidbit!

I never disputed that Al. Never have, although I take exception to some of your numbers. I would like to see any hard evidence you have on this. All I am saying is..... Nobody said they did. What's your point?

You got one on me. I mispoke. I ment to say zooplanton. I admit that I used the wrong term. And to add to that they dine on rotifers and various types of water fleas. Older fry gradually roam further and further from the nest as they begin feeding in shallow water by searching and feeding on groups of tiny plankton critters and tiny bugs associated living on or near the bottom. Other first foods are newly hatched early instars of midge and mayfly larvae. So does that sound like Spotted bass food or trout food? There is no factual evidence that man put spots in your smallmouth waters. There are many theories on how there got there but, no concrete evidence. There is factual evidence that trout were stocked by man in Missouri waters. We have already hashed all of this out between ourselves and neither of us are going to change the others mind. We just as well quit now don't you think?

It can. There is not one waterway in the State of Missouri that has been taken over by spots. Spots, while they do compete for the same food as smallmouth, are not as hard on the food source for the young fry as a trout. Trout eat a ton of microorganisms that are also what your beloved smallmouth fry eat. All predator fish, bass, trout, crappie,.... all eat minnows, crawdads and perch, the most common source of forage in creeks. They all compete equally. If spotted bass ate so much, how come they don't get as big as brownies? Trout were stocked in this state long before the MDC came into existence. They are just keeping with the tradition. And we are all enjoying it. I can't explain why the department would favor a non-native species over a native species. But that is just the mentality of those easterners.

There are resident trout year round in Hickory and Capps and as well as other White Ribbon streams. Are they easy to catch? Not in the least. And that is the challange. Don't you like a little challange??? I don't guess it would hurt anything to have a C&R section. Of course it is not hurting anything by not having one either. Except adding to someone's daily trout count. The exact same can be said of the Spotted Bass. Sorry brother. I will agree, I would love to see all the White River dams come down. But what would Babbler do????

And niether did the MDC. But you are using that as a base for your argument. I have answered your previous question. And so have quite a few others that have posted to this proposal. Because White Ribbon fisheries are managed for put/take. Anything else is not a White Ribbon magagement system. Why are you so hell bent on changing the rules on a stream that you won't ever fish? Or at best you may fish it once every couple of years.