Chief Grey Bear

I questioned that in my mind also when I saw that posted. I saw a huge opening for those that are a little less than honest.

Is "Another one bites the dust" the correct terminology?

This may sound completely crazy, may even be but, I would like to take this time to say that I thank each and every one of you for not dog piling on me. I know what I posted was not very popular but it is my thoughts. You all had a every opportunity to beat me black and blue but you all acted like gentlemen.

I rolled over to Capp's early this morning so I could beat the cold front that was coming our way. I didn't beat it by much though. I think the front got hear much faster than what the weather man thought. It was 49* when I hit the road before 7am and I was hearing on the radio it was already in the mid 30's in Coffeyville just to the west on me. So I was thinking, and hoping, this is either a slow moving cold front, the hoping part, or it was running ahead of schedule. And as I was thinking, when I got to Capp's 30 minutes later, the temp was dropping like a rock. Anyway, I was dressed for it as I knew it was coming. I can't say the same for the trout. Though I will say it started out mighty slow. Well, that is not quite right. It started out pretty good. I was not on the water very long until contact was made with my first fish. That was at 8:04, after a long hike down stream. Infact I hiked to far and was actually fishing Shoal Creek! I thought it looked a wrong. I was thinking to myself, "Man, I don't remember Capp's having a flow like this?" Anyway, that was the last bite for about an hour. So I started working my way upstream with no action. Then I rounded a bend and figured out what I had done and why it seemed like there was a heck of a lot of flow. I was now standing at the confluence of Shoal and Capp's. As I worked my way up Capp's, I started getting more tugs on my line but I couldn't seem to stick them. Now I wasn't getting a lot of bites but, it had increased some what. Then at 9:30 the bite was on! I mean they must have punched the time clock and another days work had begun! In the next hour reeled in excess of 25 Rainbows and one Brown. I think it was just one of those days and I happen to be there. I had to leave to do some errands in Joplin or I would probably still be there. I noticed as I was leaving another vehicle parked next to mine. It was at this point that I had the grand pleasure of meeting and conversing with Kevin and Ken from Just Fishing Guides. A couple of really great guy's. They had come to explore Capp's for the first time and fish wise I think they picked a good day. Now, weather wise, well, I hope they don't hold this Missouri weather against us.

We may have two different thoughts as to what it was, but it was more than just a disagreement with policies and practices. It looked like something you would read on "Take back the MDC" site. That is what turned me away from the MSA. But since the site has been rebuilt, niether one of us can back up our claim. And your assumption would be correct. But the question was if anyone was interested in starting a chapter in SWMO, not joining the MSA. I am sorry I can not fully answer the second part of your post. As I stated above, the site has been rebuilt and it is no longer there.

Not anymore. They have completly changed the site. Good move in getting rid of that too. Looks like someone finally came to their senses. Wayne, is this poll open to those only actually residing in SWMO? If not I think your results may be inaccurate.

Can you elaborate on this a little more? What 'non game law violations" are you speaking of? What "out of date regs" are you complaining about?

I am not interested an any type of association with the MSA. I have been to their web site and I was astounded at the negativity they had for the MDC. Absolutely hateful rhetoric in my opinion. Just like what I keep reading on this forum on this subject.And then they turn right around and want the MDC's help. Best of luck to you anyway.

I think you said it all in the first and second sentence. And on the flip side of that, those that don't have any regard for regulations, arent' going to follow them anyway. One thing I would like to add, some of the streams that have been dropped from the list are also stocked with trout. I can't see trying to save a native species when non native species are been dumped in by the thousands. Just a thought.

Well, maybe it was me. I thought the biologist were constructing a smallmouth management plan. It was a couple of days ago when I read it. I thought I read that they actually completed it 8 years early. I will go back and reread it but, I assumed they, the MDC, was doing all of this. I understand OTF. And the way you presented it, it comes across that way. I have, I guess, taken it upon myself to stand up for the MDC. It seems like all anybody wants to do is bad mouth and beat the snot out them. I don't have anything against anyone personally that attacts the MDC but, I will probably fire back.

My thought is the MDC is darn if they do and darn if they don't. You bitch cry and whine when you thought they were doing nothing. When apperently in reality they were devising a plan ot implement. But the plan is not what you want. It doesn't do to your local waters what you want or think should be done. At least they are trying to do something. It is better than nothing. I use the term "you" and "your" in a generic sense. I am not pointing any one person out.

MMMMMM. Ethics.

Yeah there is a bit of debate. Much like fishing though, fly and spin, I have been on the business ends of rifles and bows. Most of that debate consist of the bow hunters think that it is much harder to bow hunt as the prey must come much closer. But on the flip side of that, a rifle hunter can also wait until the prey is in the same range as it would take a bow hunter. I myself never did make a shot over 50 yrds with a rifle. I just don't care to take long shots. So that whole argument never did hold much water with me. I had been C&R fishing for 20 years before I ever heard of Ray Scott. It was another 15 years after that before I read that he was the alleged father of C&R.

Yes it was. By your own words and the very title of this thread, I can't see it any other way. But that is just me.

Oh I hear ya. I am not trying to be harsh, that is just my opinion. I think what he experienced was great and we all would like to go through that at least once in our lives. I would. But let the man alone. Is he any less of a outdoorsman because he kept it? Hell no. Not in my opinion. It is almost like some are saying, the record shouldn't count since he killed the fish. See, it has changed from he kept the fish to he killed the fish. Does anybody say "Boy I killed me a mess of crappie today." NO, so why use that term now? Some need to get off of their self righteous high horses. In my opinion of course. I don't want to offend you know. Should the record not count because it was caught using powerbait? Is it unfair that he used a guide? Here is the question....should records only come from waters where natural reproduction occurs? The grumbling in hunting camps is becoming increasingly louder as more and more records come from "deer ranches" where large racks are "grown" through genetics. Would Taney be considered a "trout ranch"? Anyway, I better quit for awhile or I am gonna get skinned. OTF, pass me some of that popcorn!

Thanks ness. I appriciate it. I was thinking the same thing the other day reading your comments on Taney.

I say who cares. It was a brown trout from Taney. It was not some rare species in danger of extinction. They are neither native to Taney nor this country. They are stocked there to be caught and kept if wanted. To me, to try and make this an ethical issue is absurd.

Thanks Tim. I wouldn't mind comparing list some day. Plus I need to come see you. I lost a pair of hemo's earlier this summer and would like to replace them. I have never seen another pair like. Hoping you may be able to order them. Ain't that the truth! We need to fry some of those babies up next time!

Thanks to all of you for the kind comments. It was really a lot of fun watching him work for these. It wasn't really the best of weather conditions. The only thing that didn't happen was rain. And thank goodnes for that. I knew it was going to be cold and I had him dress in layers. The temp was in the mid 20's warming into the 30's with about a 10mph wind for most of the day. Yeah he put it to me. The first couple of holes we checked out, I didn't even take my rod. I was just there to give pointers and help out. The next stop, I busted out the fly rod and walked behind him plunking here and there. We walked up steam about a 100 yards or so and I roll casted right into a low hanging tree. While I was fiddling with that he yelled, "There he is dad!" I looked around and he was working him in. So we got him unhooked took a couple of photo's and released him. I went back to getting my fly undone, the one in the tree boys!, and no longer than I got a hold of the branch, he hollered again. So I dropped everything again and helped him out. That was it for that spot though. But the next place we hit I took the spinning rod and caught the dickens out of the rainbow chubs! Some big fat ones. But no trout. Which kind of concerns me. But yeah, he beat me 2-0. Sorry wader, I am just not going to do that on the open forum. I will say that in the last two years that I have been searching for lost tribes of wild trout here in SW Missouri, I have found in the neighborhood of 5 or so streams, besides Crane, still producing trout on their own. But some time when you are down, I would be happy to take you to one.

I had an opportunity to take Little Chief to do a little wild trout fishing today. Though he has been before, he has never caught one. Until today. I am not sure if what I have been teaching him has soaked in and he is now using that ability, or I am a good guide. I would like to think it is both. Any which way it is, he struck pay dirt today. And I tell you, in my book, he scored a couple of really nice first fish for wild trout. I know my first one was not of this size. These brutes succumbed to a #36 Pecker Gnat tied with Musk Ox testicle hair. Here are a couple of photo's of his fish. It is nice to know that we have another generation coming up to enjoy and preserve the outdoors like we did. And truly appreciate it. Little Chiefs very first wild trout. His second from the same hole.

While doing some totally unrelated research, I ran across this. I skimmed over it and someone done a lot of work to get all of this info. It doesn't, at this point in my life anyway, intrest me but, I thought some of you from AR region would enjoy it. http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:T3leVp...us&ie=UTF-8

Weren't they though. I think that is what I found most interesting about this. You can read what their objectives were and how they have progressed on them.

Very interesting. I like what I am hearing. Now that surpises me. I would think that it would do a bit of warming. I am not doubting what you say, I am just a bit surpised.

Well two thoughts immediately come to mind. The sampling came from the lower end. Aren't there less trout in the lower end? Isn't the water a little warmer also? Those numbers do look good but, I would like to see what the numbers of native fish are per acre. And how those numbers compare to other lakes? Other lakes of similar size? Those numbers just look to me to be a little funny. Numbers like that would look to rival some of the best bass lakes. I don't know just thinking out loud. I would tend to think that actually very few samples were found, as compared to lakes of similar size, but that few that were found, were of nice size. And then that makes me wonder what the age of the samples were? Were they young, large fish, meaning a fast growth rate? Or older fish with a slow growth rate? Are the growth rates the same as other lakes? I won't disagree that as written those numbers look good. Hell they look amazing but, there are also a whole host of questions to go with them to get the real picture as to the health of that lake. How many trout are there per acre of water? Per acre on the upper end? BTW - don't Brown trout love to eat Rainbows?

What baffles me is that it is considered a stream????? I thought it was LAKE Taneycomo? The problem is it is over stocked. When the trout program was younger, the trout grew large and fat. The food supply was enormous. The living was easy. Just cruise around and eat. It went so well, it was decided to keep adding to the numbers of trout stocked. And today we have almost 3/4 of a million stocked yearly. You will not convince me that the equilibrium of trout and forage hasn't been breeched. Not to mention the other native speices trying to eek out a living in there home waters. Now, I have never seen, or will ever see trout as a cash cow for the MDC. I do see it as one for some others though. And they are gonna milk that baby to death!