Forsythian

I already did friend. I guess it's what I get for trying to find some honest middle ground... some compromise where we might find the best management tool for growing big smallmouth. I don't believe resource management are your true motives. When good folk like Al extend a hand for compromise and for discovery, and I hear you over his shoulder spouting your nonsense, I'm suspicious of the whole lot of ya. Yep, it's that easy. Since you are not shy about having opinions of subjects you obviously know nothing about, please share with us your enlightened thoughts on the fox hunting question... or hunting in general?

Glen Sims, are you accusing me of poaching?

Yes, a disagreement between 2 user groups, except 1 group is advocating the wholesale abolishment of the other. Here's what I hope is my last take on this thing... I might be willing to break with some on my side and support an experimental ban (with a sunset clause) on some particular stretch of specially-managed water. Keep it quantitative and transparent. Run a couple of other stretches as "controls" with 18" length limits or some such management tool for comparison. BUT- to ban my sport on a stretch of river that allows the "harvest" of 5 SMB over 12" is ludicrous, and I'll fight it tooth and nail.

I can't speak for other blood-thirsty giggers, just as I'm sure not all flyfishermen suffer your anthropomorphism, but yes I see a correlation here. I understand and respect that areas have unique tradition and relationship with their natural world. What did you think when you heard that Great Britain outlawed the centuries-old tradition of fox hunts? I have nothing but pity and disdain for those people who "stood up" as you say against hunting rights. In Wisconsin, I have family who hunt bear with bait. There is no other effective way to hunt bear in that type of country. You see, we kill animals to eat them, and use their fur, and hang trophies, and we do not apologize for it for even a second. We are able to watch Grizzly Adams reruns and the Brother Bear cartoon and still keep things in perspective.

Your willingness to throw other sportsmen under the train, abolishing a sport you've obviously never tried (or certainly have never gained experience in) puts you in bed with PETA because it is not resource-management decision, it is a "I don't do it and I don't like it" decision. I'd be very surprised if any smallmouth organization would last long if it were to alienate and demonize a significant portion of its fellow sportsmen, when there are so many other more important issues (gravel mining, non-point source pollution, green belts, etc.). There are so many things wrong here, from battery-powered lights to "the archery fishing gear"... all I can say is that a little more knowledge of the sport you seek to abolish would improve the credibility of your position. One last thing.. it is suckers we are killing and eating (not harvesting), and unless we are discussing a shortage of redhorse or hog mollies, I guess I don't get the argument against the technical improvements in our sport!

Wow! Phil's got quite an "e" community here... everybody knows everybody. Kicknbass, great 1st post! Glen, thanks for chiming in... and thanks for that telling peak into your psyche. I disagree that most snaggers are poachers, same as I do not believe most canoe-bound smallmouth fishermen are snobs. I think it's unfortunate that some giggers are giving our sport a bad name. It is equally unfortunate that some would push their fellow sportsmen over the "slippery slope" of more and more regs (or outright banishment of their sport). We've all see it before with hound hunting, bear baiting, fox hunting, etc. Decisions based on "viscera" rather than sound management, and no respect for tradition.

I just re-read the article, and I still don't get the paragraph that quoted this mysterious "Glen Sims", and his tale of smallmouth carnage. To me, this paragraph does some significant damage to the article. I am a bit sensitive knowing that there are many who would do away with the sport altogether, at once or incrementally, and so have a seemingly endless supply of embellished first-person horror stories to support their preferred usage of a shared natural resource (river). I'm not doubting that game fish are gigged illegally or inexperiencedly (sp?), and I'm not necessarily opposed to closing some stretches of specially-managed smallmouth waters (as they have done in trout management areas). In fact, I say form a citizen's committee and put Al in the lead! BUT, I think you all would find much broader support for this if the consensus was the current laws are adequately enforced. The issue reminds me a bit of gun control.

Wayne, I must have just missed you, Silver is where I've been the last 2 times out. Before that I was fishing farther up and on the Forsyth side by the big rock. I've seen them downstream as well, near where the "walkers" always park. They are spooky, and the numbers are thin, so it's a balance between wanting a chop, and wanting water smooth enough to see their "dimples". Snag, yes I used to live in Florissant so I definitely feel lucky to be where I'm at now... I can get off work at 4:30, go home and change, and be in my waders and casting by 5:00. Not that I'm bragging or anything

;-) it's good drama! but who wants drama on the river?

I couldn't agree more tippet... I say do what you gotta do to protect the resource, but leave the Oprah Winfrey stuff at home please!

Sam, that is a good pic... I believe I know the bank, is it between Bee Creek and Mincy? I ask because I believe there are two Yocums on Bull Shoals. I dug out one more sunset pic from that trip, along with a pic of the rental boat and my "chase" boat:

"They" were nice enough to hold off the water until 6:30 tonight... I fished from 5:00pm, and managed 5 beautiful wild fish. They were spookier than ever, if that's possible, and most were feeding tight to the bank. Most were caught while casting 10 or 15 feet back from the water's edge.

Supposed to be off the river by midnight... if they were truly out all night, they are the poaching fringe that plagues every sport. I agree the article was pretty even-handed, but I didn't get this paragraph: Glen Sims, of Gravois Mill, is also upset. "I've been wade-fishing on the Gasconade when a jetboat passed by, went around an upstream bend and shut down. A few minutes later, I'd notice dead smallmouth bass drifting downstream," Sims said. What the heck is that all about? Is he wading at night, and they are upstream gigging smallmouth from a boat that is shut down?

Thanks Phil... I used http://photobucket.com

Lemme try my hand at this picture posting thing... I know there's a bunch of sunset pics already, but this is probably my best... we spent a week on a houseboat on Bull Shoals lake last summer, and made sure we had a view to the west each night... Wow, that worked pretty well... though I may have reduced it a bit much... here's one of my best fishing buddy:

I got out Sunday for about 3 hours. I was wading about 1/2 mile or so below the dam. While the water is off, a person in chest waders can just about cross the river bed in this area. The layout reminds me quite alot of upper Taneycomo, but there are key differences. There are ofcourse not near as many fish here as upper Taneycomo. There is no stocking that I am aware of. In fact, I'm sure there are many stretches where you will only haul water if you fish it. The key seems to me is to drive and scout for stretches with midging fish. You will not have to worry about stepping on fish!! The other difference is the fish themselves, which run smaller and are much more "spookier" than upper Taneycomo. Once you find a group of fish, there is required a bit of stealth on approach. Even then, I've found that once I've waded within casting distance, they will shut down for a while. If you'll stand still for a time, they begin to feed again. It's then been my experience that a plausible pattern and a good cast will get you 2 or 3 takes from the "pod", and that is it! A late hookset or a poor knot will break your heart! I've missed having the walleye in my backyard... but this troutfishing has been fun! I landed only 6 fish, and had just as many break off, let go, etc. It was definitely tough, and cold, and I'm sure I could have caught many more on upper Taneycomo... does that make me a masochist?

Loo, I realize this isn't the trout forum, but trout are your best bet above Swan Creek. Take your waders, and take a drive on the River Run side from the bridge to the dam. Look for midging fish. They are spooky and finicky, but I've managed to catch a few on black thread midges and dark-colored scuds. Good luck

Very nice! I'm guessing you're up the hill just off the 86 bridge, across the lake from (and looking back towards) Long Creek park?

No, I was able to fish for about 15 or 20 minutes before the water chased me up the bank. I dropped a black midge about 6 inches under a small white parachute pattern, and was able to present this to feeding fish, but I had no takes. I'm wondering if I need a 7X tippet...

I thought I had it figured out. Looking at the generation charts for Table Rock dam/ upper Taneycomo, I figured that Powersite dam would generate based on those spikes... say 2 or 3 hours afterwards... and it seemed to hold true for the last week or so. So, the Table Rock generation chart for Thursday (2/9) has water from 6am to 8am, and I figure the water should have been on at Powersite during the afternoon (maybe starting at noon or so?), and off by evening. Nope, they hold it until I get off work, drive, change, rig up, get my waders on, scramble down the bank, get knee-deep, and begin to pay-out some line... then I swear as soon as the fly hits the water they sound the horn time = 4:30 pm ahh, the joys of tailwater fishing!

Tippet... I tried the gnat to no avail. I went back 2/7 and ran through my fly box again, and finally just before dark I managed a couple of "reaction" fish by stripping a maribou through them. I brought one home and did a little "CSI" autopsy... his belly was full of some type of nymph/larva... I need a book or a website for hatch charts, not sure what they were. Anyways, Wayne I'm fishing on the south side of the stream... I'll be down there this evening between 4:30 - 5:00 so long as they shut the water off...

Anybody know of a good weblink (w/ pics) for hatch charts of our area? thanks

Guys, there are a bunch of duckhunters on the website below... be forewarned: you'll need thick skin over there... http://www.cafeoutdoors.com

Brian, do you still have this?

Phil, these were small fish... the biggest was maybe 10 or 11 inches. Where was I? Lets just say I was between Powersite dam and Barker In further retrospect, I should have kept one and checked its gullet... My earlier invitation (plea) to Brian or another experienced flyfisher to join me one of these evenings and trade their insight and company for a cold beer and a couple of solitary wading spots still stands...