OzarkKid07

Well, that's a great question. To be honest, I didn't even know that there were organizations that do that. I knew the government does that. I'd have to know what those organizations do EXACTLY and how they are set up concerning governing officials and their decision-making process for growth and changes. If you guys have some of this info, feel free to share it. I'm certainly going to do some research on those organizations and see what ideas I can get. If they are in line with what I have in mind then I will just add to the mix of some great organizations. If they are different, then I will explain to you how so and why.

Oh wow. Good info Al! Thanks. Your description has my mouth watering so to speak. I'm taking all this info and compiling a list that I'm going to let my co-canoeists look at and we'll make a decision based on the info. So keep it coming! The Gasconade sounds great as I just found out that my father-in-law is pretty nervous about canoeing on a river since he has never done it before. Thanks a bunch! Mike

Oh I see. No sir. We do not hide anything. We all pay taxes except for those that we can avoid through legal loopholes of course! Like any good citizen who wants to hold onto his hard-earned money we deduct what we can and pray for good conservatives candidates to get in office and do something good for our country. (No, I'm not plugging the conservatives. Just not endorsing the liberal socialist anti-Americans on the other side.)

Well, the Buffalo River looks amazing in the pictures I saw and I am definitely going to go there at some point this year! Thanks for the recommendation! I had never even heard of it before. However, I think the Current sounds like it's gonna be great and it's pretty close to home, which is important for my time constraints. Less driving, more fishing. That being said, if we plan for the first week or second week of May, what types of lures should we be fishing for the different types of fish? My father and I will be alternating between fly rods and ultralights and my in-laws will probably just be on light rods. Our main focus will be smallies and goggle eye, but I wouldn't mind catching a trout or seven. So if you guys have any input on that, it will be greatly appreciated! Tight lines boys!

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I'll assume that you are asking if it is for profit or non-profit. Well, it is for profit. It is a Leadership development business. Good profit margin.

There are so many fallacious statements in that post that I don't think I have time to address them all, so I will just address the worst ones. First of all, it's not a "money-making land scheme". If you have any concern with argumentative accuracy, you might want to carefully re-read all my posts on this thread, as you have obviously missed what TEAM does and what I personally want to do. We are two very separate entities with very separate goals. And yes, I answered Daddy Carp's question after I said I wasn't going to post anymore. So sue me haha. I can certainly appreciate you owning up to being an arrogant critic. As long as we're all aware of where we stand in regards to those who say "it can't be done" and those who are already doing it. (I trust that you're picking up on my sarcasm and note that it is not done out of spite, but the good-natured ribbing that I hope can be accepted.)

Al, I've got to say that's my favorite take on this thing so far! That's why I posted it! To get people to help me develop my dream by asking great questions like that. I would like to clarify that the governing and owning organization would be made up of people like us, not just people who are on TEAM. It would be open to anyone who supports the cause of protecting land from development. It would also be completely democratic, in that decisions regarding what parts would be for conservation and what parts would be for recreation and so forth. the only problem I see with relinquishing it to the government is that they would have to pay for all those things, which means tax dollars from people who don't give a rip about conservation at all would go towards it. I don't necessarily think that's fair to all tax-payers. The burden of liability and privilege should lie with those who are willing to contribute amounts of money at their discretion, not as a line-item that people overlook. Just my thoughts... Ignore the last one. this is the grammatically revised one.

I'm wanting to take my father, my best friend, my father-in-law and my brother-in-law on a float trip in the Ozarks on which we can see some gorgeous scenery and have fun floating without portaging too much, but can also have a shot at some really nice smallmouth and panfish and maybe some bigmouths. What river would be a good one for the inexperienced canoeist that also has some great fishing and is clear water? Also, when is the best time to go? We all want to go in spring, but I don't want to get killed by heavy rains, nor do I want to be in freezing water. Nah, we're not picky. I'm just looking out for these guys. My dad is a lake largemouth fisherman and the other three aren't fishermen at all. I would fish in a puddle in January in shorts if I thought it would work, but I want it to be a good memory for the fam, not a memory where we dumped our canoes, lost someone to drowning in a current, didn't catch a fish and froze to death.

Team is actually structured as a profit-sharing organization. We don't have a product as you had mentioned. Instead, we provide leadership consulting services and leadership development tools to families, businesses and churches and we share in the profits earned from those tools on a national level, not a "commission" base as with those types of businesses. It ensures that money can not be raked off the top by any individual or group.

I'd like to add that the disparaging and negative remarks that have been made would probably be less likely to be shared outside of this forum. If one was brave enough to call us a left-wing liberal organization while 30,000 of us are at the Edward Jones Dome for 3 days in February, I would have much more respect for your criticism. Since that will never happen, I'll say that each of us, especially those with philosophy majors should listen to the words of our mommies- if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. I'm taking my own advice here and will not be typing in this forum anymore. Let's just talk smallies and trout. Tight lines!

Good Lord! I certainly opened a can of worms here! Let me first say that when I used the term "founding fathers" I was not referring to the founders of TEAM. I was referring to the founding fathers of our country. Furthermore, I am not a salesman attempting to infiltrate a fishing forum in search of "disciples". I was simply expressing a dream of mine in hopes that someone else might get it and want to join me. Maybe I should have left the TEAM out of the conversation, but I felt like it was important to show how I plan on making enough money to purchase land. I feel like I should give credit to the organization that has made it possible for me to be financially free and has given me hope that I can become wealthy enough to change the destiny of my kids and their kids. I never intended to begin a discussion about religion or faith, I just thought I'd mention that we're based on a specific set of principles so that the assumption that we are a Buddhist organization or a Muslim organization or, really even ANY religion, couldn't be made. I find it interesting at all the comments that have been made referring to me as a socialist or that my ideas are socialist. The writers of those comments obviously either don't understand what I'm suggesting or they don't understand what socialism is. You see, what I believe in is FREE ENTERPRISE. "You can have what you can earn, economically speaking". I'm not talking about overthrowing a government here or living outside of ours. I'm talking about using our government's laws and freedoms jointly to become a land-owner, which I'm pretty sure is a Constitutional right. Sure, at some point the government might try and take my land, but that is not the case now. And if they wanted to take it and do something like they did with Table Rock as was mention in an earlier post by someone, that's fine. It's all in the name of conservation and adds to outdoor sports. I think that the mistake I made was assuming that people would understand what I as wanting. As a last point, I'd like to say that there's an overwhelming amount of "bellying up" going on in some of those previous posts from you guys. In one statement it was mentioned that "if the government wants it, they'll take it" and in the same post, "I don't college try, I fight and do a thing". (My quotes are not direct, they're paraphrased.) We don't live in a dictatorship. We live in a free country. We are not subject to our government, our government is subject to US. If I'm wrong, then what value does your vote have anyway. I had hoped that I might find some men of courage who have dreams bigger than mere survival, but to no avail. It's interesting because I have plenty of people on my team who are passionate about what we do as TEAM. I need another 'person' like I need a hole in the head, but i am always looking for those brave souls that do really believe in fighting for something good.

Hey fellas, I think that our discussion has gotten far removed from what I'm talking about, and maybe that's because I'm not very good at communication. Believe me, I'm working on that. Just ask my wife. My point was not an existential or religious one, nor was it a "save the world" speech. I just see an opportunity to take advantage of the benefits of free-enterprise and an economy that rewards big thinking and a government that may or may not have conservation at the top of its priorities and do something. It's not a scam or a cult, it's a business in which the book that describes our core competency is topping the charts all over our country. And my idea of owning lots of land through the power of combined effort rather than individually is simply that- A group of people who want to ensure that we have a place to fish and hunt and so do our great, great grandkids. I don't care about what is out of my control, my concern is with things that I can influence. And I believe this is one of them. Whether you believe in a God or not, you can be a man of character who accomplishes something great for our nation currently and for posterity. And, to be sensitive, I'm not saying that this is the only great thing. I just think it is one great thing, and it happens to be my great thing.

Well, Trav, I see that you and i are at an impasse. You seem to be a glass-is-half-empty kind of guy and I am the opposite. I don't mean that as an insult at all, it's just the facts as supported by your statements. I certainly support your right to say all the things you believe and hold dear and am excited to live in a country where it is possible to have that freedom. I am sorry that you don't understand where we're coming from or agree with our direction. Actually, I'm probably not sorry because if you're excited about accepting our circumstances as a naion, then I'll be excited when we DO change things in our nation and your place among the ranks of those who said that our founding fathers couldn't do it will be secured. As a side note, I'm sure that you will agree that you live by some religious principles, whether you give religion credit or not. Of course, I am assuming that you aren't a murderer, an adulterer or one who despises his parents. Principles aren't a bad thing my friend. I hope that we can agree to disagree and that you will respect my attempt to gain some friends through this website that may see things our way and would like to give it the old college try. I hope you have a safe New Year! Tight lines!

Wow DC, I must have sorely miscommunicated and that is MY fault. They aren't trying to buy an island to move us to... They're buying an island as a private resort for vacations. I sometimes forget to make myself clear when I'm excited about something. The only reason I mentioned that they're even considering buying an island is because that triggered my idea to buy up land to protect from development. Also, they don't appoint the Policy Council. As a matter of fact, no one has any control over who is a part of the Policy Council except for the people who volunteer to be ON the Policy Council. I can and will be a part of it as soon as humanly possible. I have to earn it though, no differently someone has to earn a place on a Board of Directors. I realize that some people on Boards of Directors may have bought their way there, but our team does not even allow for that. Proof of eligibility must be in the character, performance and leadership of all who would desire that status. "If people want to protect what is here, They need to start taking responsibility, listening to the events & happenings, learning how it will effect them and then going to the polls and casting an INFORMED vote. Problem is, less and less of society is willing to take that responsibility as time passes. They are to deep into themselves to care what is going on around them." I could not agree with you more here, as does the Team. Responsibility and awareness are a large part of what we stand for! As for buying up distressed farms, that is not an ideology of TEAM or of me. I would rather see AID given to farmers who are in distress than advantage of their situation be taken by any individual or group. My idea is more that when someone decides to sell a piece of land that is worth preserving, it could be purchased, at a negotiated price that would benefit the sellers and add to the "kitty" of land that we desire to preserve and protect for nature lovers and outdoor sportsman. It would not be detrimental to ANYONE. I sincerely apologize if my description of TEAM made it sound like a cult as it certainly is not. It is as decent an organization as I have ever come across in my life, especially considering it is not a religious organization. I hope my explanation has shed more light on my true ideas. I also want to make it clear that my idea is not shared by TEAM. I am simply using TEAM as a vehicle to achieve some of my dreams. While our website is password protected, you are more than welcome to check it out at www.the-team.biz. It is ambiguous for the visitor, but hopefully will give you an idea of who we are. Again, please accept my apology for my miscommunication. If you have any further question or comments, please feel free! Thanks for your response!

For those of you who are reading this, please bear in mind that I am not a professional writer or, for that matter, even an amateur writer. This is not meant to be an editorial or an article. It is not about an idea that might work. It is not about something I might try. It is an invitation to you to become a part of something that is currently happening and that can NOT be stopped. It is an introduction to men and women who are concerned about our nation's status and direction and want to see change, but do not see a means of causing that change. I am a part of a large group of men, women and families called "TEAM" that have come together under one banner of national and global change through personal and leadership development. We have a common objective of growing to a primary goal of 1,000,000 people on our way to MILLIONS of people. I realize that it sounds unattainable to most that hear it, but it is our goal and we will achieve it. We are not concerned with who joins our effort, regardless of age, sex, race or religion. However, as an organization we adhere to the Judeo-Christian principles set forth in the Bible and we teach those principles in conjunction with business, family and social principles and ethics. Our focus is helping people achieve constantly higher self-assessed ratings in the areas of Character, Tasks and Relationships. The founders of our organization recently wrote a book called "Launching a Leadership Revolution", which is topping the charts of USA Today, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. I tell you that information in order to give you an idea of who we are and what we stand for. The point of this thread and the reason I wanted to put it on this site, is that it was recently brought to my attention that our government may want to sell off some of the land that has been dedicated to conservation. Whether or not it is true, is virtually irrelevant. It made me think. Our government is run by humans of the not-perfect type. We say it is a democracy, and compared to all other governments, it is the closest there is. However, things happen in our country today that would never have been thought to happen in our nation's short lifespan. The concept of land being sold off is POSSIBLE and even LIKELY, if not now, definitely in the future. But there is a way to stop it. I have heard that on our team, the founders and several of people on the Policy Council (which is a board of decision-makers comprised of people who have earned their right to be a part of that elite group and is open to ANYONE who desires to be a part of it) have purposed to buy an island with the first 25 policy council members and call it TEAM Island. That idea lead me to this idea. What if we as fishermen and outdoors enthusiasts took advantage of the economies of scale and geographic efficiency that TEAM is offering and raised enough money that as a GROUP of people who hold similar values and desires for our nation and our undeveloped land PURCHASED land, both public and private as it becomes available and preserved it as it should be preserved?! What if we controlled the majority of the Ozarks public land? What if every time someone was selling some of their land at the risk of it being developed for profit, we bought it from them and added it to the pot of protected and privately owned land? The possibilities are limitless. I urge those of you that have a passion for preservation and conservation to contact me. I realize that I haven't given all the information about what TEAM does and how, but those are just details. They are VITAL details, but that is irrelevant if we do not have a purpose and a vision. We do have choices. We do have power. We CAN make a difference in people's lives and in the direction of our nation. We can own this land and protect it. I hope that you will take my words in the spirit in which they were intended and that we can team up to do the right thing with all that God has blessed us with. Have a great New Year and I hope to hear from you soon!

Thanks for the input fellas! I really appreciate your help! I'm definitely gonna check it out and I'll let you know how I do!

Do you think it would be okay if I started a new topic so that it does not interfere with people who want to read about fishing and related topics, as this topic thread is designated for? Being so new, I don't want to act like I own the place!

I have no idea where to post this question because there is no Topic about this stream, so I'll post it here and hopefully get some answers! When I was a little kid, my folks took me and my brother to a stream called Marble Creek that, I believe, runs into the St. Francis river. It was one of the most beautiful and isolated streams I had ever been on at that point (keep in mind I was like 10) and it left a great impression on me. What I'd like to know is if it is fishable and if so, how is it? Has anyone fished it and what were your experiences? Thanks for playing! Mike

Hey guys, this is an interesting conversation that has taken place on this thread, and I don't know if this forum is intended for this kind of discussion, but it's happening so I'm definitely going to express my view. I agree with you guys totally about the tax-dollar comments and not trusting our government etc. etc.. However, there are things we can do and, hoping that you'll all forgive me for taking a soapbox moment, I'd like to share with you what I'M doing currently. First of all, there's a website called www.fairtax.org that I highly recommend you visit and read. There is also a book called the Fair Tax book. It's an easy read and very informative. I can't recommend it enough. We may not be able to control the "values" of our politicians or what is done with our money (at least not very well), but we can control when we pay taxes and how much we pay under HR25, the FairTax Bill. I won't go into details, but read the book and you'll see what I mean. Secondly, there's not much we can do to preserve Federal Land if the "government" that "cares" for it wants to sell it. Unless we buy it. That's pretty unfeasible for most of us to even think about, but it is attainable and I am trying to make it even more attainable. I own a business and am working on a way to raise $100,000,000 that will be used to purchase private and public land (as it becomes available) to protect it from those whose values lie in profit only and have no regard for our nation's wildlife and the prestige of the greatest undeveloped land in the world. I won't go into the details of this endeavor either, but depending on the response I get from you guys, I may start my own topic thread in an appropriate place on this site. If y'all are interested in the possibility of people who REALLY care about our country owning it and controlling it, definitely let me know in Private Messages or email me at mjmooney4@gmail.com. I'll share my thoughts and my dreams and maybe we can change things for the better. "Integrity is the strength to not do what's wrong. Character is the courage to stand up and do what's right."

Hey thanks for the advice! I'll definitely check those out! I'm really interested in both of those kind of groups, so that'll work out really well. Hopefully I'll see you there!

Well, I live so doggone far from all that water except the Meramec which I still haven't been to. But when I'm in the Ozarks, I spend most of my time at the Little Sac and Table Rock. I'd say that the Little Sac is where my heart is at, but only for lack of experience. I plan on spending a lot of time at the Meramec, Gasconade, Current, Black and Beaver Creek and maybe the Huzzah this year so I'll be able to answer much more definitively in 12 months. And that's the SHORT answer.

flyfishfan, I don't mean to be presumptuous in any way, but that sounds like a great stream you're talking about! My father and I have been looking for a stream we can fish this winter a little bit that we don't have to put a boat on, or at least can put just a jon boat on, and that is in St. Louis. Is your stream one that we could visit?

So your recommendation is to keep the barbs? I guess it's just a preference thing huh? I mean, if I'm careful with removing the hook, it shouldn't be a problem at all right?

I'll definitely do that, but I don't think I can wait till summer. Is that stretch of the river walkable on the bank or will I need to float it? I really appreciate you sharing the info! Also, I noticed that the Meramec is near Six Flags... are there smallmouth and trout that far north?

Wow guys! I really appreciate all the input! I will definitely go check out the upper Meramec and the surrounding streams! I didn't know there were smallies in there! You see how much I know. This is why I joined! I think it is entirely possible that what I thought was the James River is actually Springfield lake, it's just that I could've sworn that I saw a sign just before that bridge that said James River. I don't think I could convince my wife to get in a canoe this winter, but is the Meramec the kind of river that you can walk along and fish? Also, thanks for the compliment about my intro essay; that was really funny! Last question for now... should I go barbless on a treble-hook on a crawdad crankbait? I keep reading about barbless hooks for smallmouth and I don't necessarily want to needlessly destroy hooks OR smallmouth lips. Thanks!