Kicknbass

These stories are great. A few years back, I was fishing with my buddy Tim on the Big river. It wasn't a memorable day of fishing, but it was quite a memorable trip. Anyway, we had motored up stream and was floating and fishing in the off colored and lazy flow of the Big river. It was a cool day in March or April and the bite was slow. As we drifted past casting to this lay down, I noticed a small log in the stream that we were about to hit. I was on the front of the boat, standing working the trolling motor, and Tim was in the back standing on the back deck fishing. I called out to Tim "brace yourself, we're going to hit" We struck the log and the boat rock some what w/o any problem. Unfornunately, I didn't see the next log in the river, and we struck it with no warning. I was facing the front of the boat not seeing what Tim was doing at the time of the impact. The impact was very suttle, but it caught us both off guard. I staggered somewhat, and heard "Splash" I looked back and Tim was popping up out of the water. I quickly jump back to his aid, retrieved his floating hat, and verified that he was okay. I happened to have a camera in my front pocket and quickly pulled it from my pocket and snapped 2-3 photos of a soaking wet Tim pulling himself back into the boat. After expressing his displeasure with a few explitives, Tim changed clothes ( I typically carry a change of clothes in a boat bag) and we finished the day fishing. Tim and I work in the same office, and I had the photos framed and displayed in the office to share with all in the office of our outting.

I thought that there might be laws on the books already that could be used against the stream dancers if an officer was so compelled. It is irrelevant if the prosecutor is going to minimize the law. It is still a huge inconvenience for the person cited. Agents in the field showing a presence is the best form of deterrent to most game law violations.

Thank the anti fur groups for this. I think this is a big reason the Quail numbers are down as well, too many predators that eat quail. I remember my uncle selling coon hides back in the 70's. I think they brought more then than they do now 30 years later. The trappers and coon hunters were more prevelant and kept the predators in check. Now the market for furs is way down, and the predator numbers are up causing the quail numbers to be down. I would think this formula would be similar for other prey. Thank PETA and like thinking folks for their help w/ conservations issues.

Oh the Jet boats. The NPS has on the current river has done a fairly reasonable job w/ the jet boat issue. There is a HP restriction on the entire stretch of river that is in the ONSR. This doesn't restrict the numbers, but it does limit the speed to a reasonable level. The rivers themselves place a ban the jet boats, some have chuck rock, some are too small, and some have low water bridges that limit use area. There are many rivers that are inviting to jet boat use. Current, Gasconade, Meremac are all streams where the jet boats are popular and if you don't have one, I can see you being annoyed by them. However, if you’re a fisherman, they are a great means of transportation to run the Honey holes. I hate to admit it on this website, but I have a jet boat and like to gig. (Sorry, I don't drink corn liquor) There are several streams that I frequent due to the rivers ability to support Jet boats. Many streams are not good jet boat streams. Some of the streams are too small, or have chunk rock bottoms, that tear holes in the bottom of an aluminum boat. (AKA Norfork in Ark). I have a $400 repair bill for trying to come up river after the dam shut off. My point is in the summer during prime river use, there are many factors that annoy various use groups. I stop using the meramec above Stanton in the summer do the vast number of canoes. Do I like the canoes, NO. But I change my habits and fish this area in the off-season I don't believe changing the law would be fair to the folks that enjoy canoeing. The same goes for the jet boat areas. If you don't like them, there are several streams that do not get much jet boat traffic. Fish them and be peaceful. In the spring and fall, the river use falls off and can be extremely enjoyable not too many canoes, and not too many Jet boats but plenty of SMB. Lets face it, there are only about 20 days per year that the rivers are over crowded, Summer time weekends when we all want to use the river....Just not together.

Yea, it's good debate. What else is a guy to do when he's not fishing only wish'n.

I just think that there are SO... many laws on the books that are not being enforced, that it is silly to keep adding additional laws that there not going to enforce. Put an ethic page in the fishing rule book that educate folks on the reasons not to shuffle. The MDC has enough on their plate than to sit back and watch for stream dancers.

Unchanged. Lets save the ink on unenforcable laws. Maybe there would be more resources available to get agents in the field. If the MDC has agent in a area they would be better serving the public by showing their presence in most cases. It's kinda of like tapping your breaks when you see the Hwy Patrol. Their presence makes you more aware of your speed whether your speeding or not. The regular presence of the agents in an area would keep the marginal anglers straight. There no help for the poachers.

NO Change It is an ethical issue. There no reason to waste ink on law that is nearly unenforcable. "but Officer, I wasn't shuffling, I was trying to clean the fish poop from my feet"

Boy your tough on the giggers. The NPS does limit the number on current river somewhat. They are still pretty liberal numbers. The MDC have boats, they could patrol the river. A greater presence on the water and in the woods would do much more to help than any other function they perform to help with prevention. I don't disagree with this change. That area above birdsnest is a bit small to grow alot of big bass per mile. I don't typically get up in the SMB managment area during gigging season, the river is too small to idle the boat while your gigging in too many areas your constently fighting the bottom. Are there quite a few folks gigging that stretch of river? I normally gig below St. Clair. When the water clears up in the winter you can many times find big schools of redhorse suckers. Unfortunately, it is not clear enough to gig many nights a year. I love the idea of a slot limit, but I think I would lower the length on the low side to 11 or 12 inches. Most folks would turn back the fish under 10 inches and the fish over 12 inches are prime spawning size. This would allow the folks looking for a meal to keep a few sunfish, and small bass for a meal but leave the spawning size fish alone to grow to trophy size. I have fished Lake Fork in Texas and have caught a lot of big largemouth. The slot limit is 16-24 inches. A couple of years ago I caught a skinny 22 1/2" fish. The charts tell me that he weighed over 8 pounds, but the scale said under 5 pounds. The Guide I was fishing with had a customer catch a fish that weight over 10 lbs the week before but the fish only measured 23 1/2". That fish got put back and a replica was made. The replicas look better than a real mount anyway. There is really no reason to keep a big fish.

Thanks Maul Swinger That will be tough on the corn liquored up Hill Billies. Wayne, Look what you started by posting that article on gigging. You should be proud. You have reached out to the pro and con gigging crowd, the pro & con bear baiting crowd, the pro and con jet boat crowd, and the pro and con boat ramp building crowd. Forsythian, You must admit, the chicken leg bit was funny. It's amazing all of the opinions that come out on a forum such as this. I really enjoy reading all of this bantering even though I don't agree with it all. One thing I think we can all agree with is that none of us like to see sport fishing harmed by poachers. whether it come by the way of a gig, or other means. Enforcement is the key, not changing the laws. If the MDC had a greater presence on the waters of the state, targeting areas such as the SMB management waters, the poachers would be deterred. Many of the folks that take short bass or bait fish for trout in fly only water are causal users that are uneducated or just don't think they will get caught. Nothing educates better than a good stiff fine. I spend 50 - 60 days on the water fishing or in the field hunting and seldom see an agent. Nothing agents the agents, most that I have met are great folks. They are just spread too thin. The MDC needs to allocate more $$ to the agents in the field to help police the waters of the state. Al mentioned the SMB management area on the meramec. Wow, talk about a place that is over used. Most summer weekends, you can cross the stream on the canoes and rafts w/o getting your feet wet. Limiting the outfitters ability to put boats in the stream would help. The shear numbers that use the river trash the place up. That’s where the good responsible giggers come in. There’s nothing like practicing your gigging technique by removing the many beer cans in the river after the summer floating season is over. Can anyone give the giggers an at-a-boy for that.

Polock, I have family in the Ellington area and put in at the Log Yard access. This area is heavily used by the Jet boat traffic on the major weekends. But if your able to go mid week in the summer or during the off season you will be alone. Even on the major weekends it is a great area to fish before noon. But look out when the Jet boat traffic starts the area between log yard and owls bend can be like party cove at Lake of the Ozarks. I wish the MDC would change the SMB regs in the ONSR area to improve the size of the fish. Maybe a SMB management area, maybe a slot limit, to allow the rec fisherman a chance to do their thing. I have fished Lake Fork in Texas and let me tell you the slot limit works on that lake. The MDC doesn't even patrol the river. The river is patrolled by the NPS. The feds focus is mainly the recreational use not fish management. The MDC should take advantage of this jewel.

In my opinion, the issue is not about the love of gigging, or the love of smallies, but the slow erosion of our rights as outdoorsman. The enviro wackos and groups such as PETA that are well funded and actively protest Fishing tournaments such as they did at last years Citco Bassmasters classic in Pittsburgh PA would love to eliminate Gigging, then bait fishing then fishing in general. The goal is called divide and concur. First they get the fishing community to divide and eliminate gigging in SMB waters. Then they advocate against bait fisherman, then all fishing. Lets not turn on the gigging community because we don't believe it is a valid form of fishing. Gigging is the oldest form of fishing. The gig fishermen were gigging the SMB management waters before the idea was a thought. If the gig fisherman were decimating the populations, then why has the SMB management areas improved with the new management laws? If gigging in these areas were such a determent, the management laws would not have had such a drastic effect improving the fishing in these waters. My experience is that the laws have greatly improved the fishing in these areas. However, the gigging pressure has remained somewhat constant. Law enforcement should be better funded to set up sting operations and have a greater presence on the rivers during gigging season as they do during the Deer and Turkey seasons. It would be relatively easy to do w/ the limited access to the rivers. The gigging boats must come back to their rigs to trailer and leave. A presence at the SMB management areas would have an effect on the mindset of the poachers.

The laws are already on the books banning gigging of game fish. I agree that law enforcement is a tool that should be utilized greater than current levels. I also agree that one bad apple can hurt the population. But lets not legislate against the law abiding. I would love it if the state increased the number of SMB management areas in the state, but not if it means restricting the rights of the gigging community. If you have found areas that have a large number of trophy bass being targeted. Report this to the local MDC agent and maybe they can get the funding for greater enforcement in these areas. Most of the gigging community would absolutely support enforcement of the game laws to help the SMB population. Most of the gigging community are SMB fisherman in the warmer months. The waters in the state that are the best gigging waters are also some of the best SMB waters. The gigging community has been around for many years and as the rod and reel community have become more conservation minded. Look in the old photos of BASS and you will see that catch and release was not always the ways of most sportsmen. There are still some bad apples, just like there are bad apples in the rod and real community that will take short fish and excess of their limits.

Current River is a great smallmouth fishery. My home stretch of water is from Owls bend to Van Buren. I had several 30 fish days this past year. The only problem w/ the fish is that most fish are 10-13 inches. I did catch a few 15-16 inch fish this year, but not many. I have fished the SMB management areas on the meramec and the big piney rivers. These areas have much larger average fish. A few years back on the piney, I had a weekend float in August catching over a hundred fish most over 14 inches that trip rivaled Ontario. Current River in the Ozark National Scenic Riverways is a prime location for a SMB management area. Great population of fish, great habitat and food supply to grow monster SMB. It is not even on the MDC radar for a SMB management area. I remember a trip w/ my father back in the early 70's when dad and I fished one hole of water and caught 3 huge fish. 24, 20 & 18 inches. Wow what an outing. This type of fishery is still possible on this river. The main reason the fish aren't larger is they take a long time to reach these sizes, and are harvested a year or so after reaching legal length. This river and also the meramec are used extremely heavily in the summer months. If each angler soaking worms takes 1 or 2 legal fish each outing, the number of mature fish is diminished. Changing the limits would force the law-abiding anglers to put the fish back into the river to grow giving more fish a chance to get to trophy size. Current River and the Eleven Point are Missouri's treasures known nationally for their scenic beauty. They should also be known for their fishery.

Wow, I didn't expect such a response from my first post. It is great to see that so many are serious about the topic. I have gigged for years, and kill hundreds of suckers. Suckers are schooling fish that like open water, as do trout. SMB typically are structure oriented found in the deepest water in the winter hid in the structure. You really do not see many bass on a nights outing. Most nights gigging on the meramec I will never see a bass. Al Agnew, - I'll take you out gigging and give you $10 for every bass that you see if you'll give me $10 for every hour that we gig w/o seeing a bass. More big bass are harvested legally by floaters casually fishing each year than by gigging. Gigging is really not a huge threat to the SMB population. If you have never tried gigging, you should so that you could understand that it does not pose the threat that you fear. Most of the folks that I know in the gigging community are just average outdoorsmen that enjoy the night out on the river. These are people that support your right to fish and hunt. They just enjoy a different method than you. Trout waters are protected and should be protected from gigging for two reasons. First, there is a very limited number of trout waters in the state. All ozark streams that are gigging water is good smallmouth water eliminating gigging in smallmouth waters would eliminate gigging. Trout water is limited to less that 5% (I'm guessing) of all ozark streams. The second reason is that trout are similar to suckers feeding in the same open waters and trout and yellow suckers are nearly indistinguishable. Even the most experienced gig fisherman will gig trout accidentally. SMB are much easier to identify. Most SMB are killed in deep water near the limit of the visible depth. Changing the length and creel limits would be and have proven much more effective.

This article is tough on the gigging community. As sportsman, we have too many groups outside the hunting and fishing community that would like to limit our right’s, lets not alienate each other. I am an avid smallmouth bass fisherman that would love to see better management of the states fishery. Most of my time spent fishing is on the waters of the meramec and current rivers. The meramec in the trophy SMB management area is a great fishery, however, it is nearly unfishable during the summer months due to the masses that float the stream. The current river has a large number of SMB. Unfortunately, it is tough to catch many fish over 13-14 inches. The river is used extremely heavy in the summer months by floaters above two rivers, and boaters below. This would be a great stream to change to a SMB managed area allowing the fish a chance to get to trophy status. I am sure that there are more SMB removed from the stream by the recreational users taking legal fish by legal methods than from giggers. Limiting the SMB length and limits would cause the vast majority of the fish to be released to grow and fight again. Most recreational fisherman are law abiding and would not want to break the rules and would willingly abide. Fish gigging is a ton of fun. I have been fishing gigging for 20 + years and had very few illegal fish brought into the boat. The rivers have plenty of suckers, which most giggers prefer. However, mistakes do happen and when a error is made, unfortunately the fish will not survive. I am sure far fewer smallmouth bass are removed from the water by giggers than are taken by bait fisherman and recreational fisherman that remove the fish legally. Trout on the other hand are hard to distinguish from suckers and trout water should be protected. Most giggers are honest respectable sportsman that would not purposely kill game fish.