esox niger

The water clarity is variable...the longer the missouri river has been falling the better the clarity...the other day it was about max 2 ft...yesterday the water began to rise and clarity went to ? 6" probably....with the cloudy water and rising water cats have typicly been off for me but there is some kind of fish feeding surface that i cant get a bead on...at first i thought they were gar but they look more like salmon ie Carp...but not common carp i believe ive seen some buffalo rising but im seeing more dark back with silvery sides....and no large scales wich leaves me with big asian carp...but there hitting the surface and leaving big circular boils....maybe they are mating...but im under the impression they are feeding minnows however, I tried a deciever and a deer hair floating minnow and nothing at all. if anyone has any ideas about those fish...they appear to be quite large and very powerful. id be interested to find out what those are. to be honest I dont know what affect the mudy water has but id say its better when it clears up a little after 4-5 days of falling water levels...if the bait guys are doing well on the flats id say you could do just as well. like i said I believe the heavy fly smaking the water is going to get the fishes attention especialy in the flats or near log jams. im willing to bet that even in pitch blackness a nearby fish can find your fly and attack it. i usualy use foot long strips finished with a thumb pop ( i strip the line with my thumb on the line closest to the rod and when i finish the strip i twist my rist downward which finishes the strip quiker than it began... probably needless bull...point being move some water with the fly. if the fish are feeding you should be on. thats my guess.

ive fished labarque creek...its so small i didnt even get bluegill although the missouri atlas and gazetter says that creek is excellent i rather doubt it unless you fish the very terminal end of the creek up from the maramek. I could be wrong here cus i fished in late summer, maybe its different in spring early summer. the meramec and big do have wade fishing areas for smallmouth. as do numerous other creeks and rivers in missouri. if you realy want the lowdown id suggest a book called something like 200 missouri smallmouth adventure....or something like that im sure you could find it at Feather-craft fly shop near brentwood on manchester.

here are the flies. i mainly fish white and silver grey magnums havent realy tried much else and they seem to work plenty well so i stick with that. i threw in a pic of a purple one with silver body, i dont fish purple much so i cant say how that fly works but with a white tail and silver body thats the shiznit, just imagine the purple is white...im starting to realy like the silver chenile body flies but yellow has been killer as well and theres one with white estez which im sure would work good too. I have heard two tone is a good idea....i actually came up with they fly from a guy who posted big flathead pics, he said he was getting them on white curly tail grubs with a flouresent green jighead...to i translated that to a fly and this is what ive got. my only note ,not that it matters, is the strip can be tied over the body zonker style or simply as a tail. mostly i fish tails with estez body. putting the hook through the tail seems to help a little with it getting fouled up and i try to use the estez as far back over the tied down strip as i can, that seems to help a little too. for what its worth the flys been good on whitebass and largemouth as well. gettin some porker bass lately too in that lake, not as consistant as the catfish though. i think ive got to go fish again, this time im taking my camera!!!

well Im sorry to disapoint everyone by not havig a picture of todays catch. at least im disapointed! by the time i got back to my car and got the camera it was too dark for a photo so i held the fish up to my rod and it was about 5 inches shy of the first guide im measured that out to be 28 inches. booyah! i saw about 3 or 4 more the same size and hooked into another one maybe bigger for a couple of seconds till the fly pulled out!!! dont be saying there going to disapear dudes! i bet this backwater holds cats all summer long....last summer i had a fish come after my fly that made a wake witha 3-4 nch front wave, if you like minnows why not cruise the backwater, and im under the impression that we are early in the spawning season cats dont even hit peak activity till 75-80degree water temp, though i havent looked at what it is lately im guessing 70degrees max. you may be right but im not convinced. or better, im in denial. shoot, im in jepordy of loosing my lame job by taking days off to go fishing, all i need is more pressure to be out hunting fish. well im a little amped up. next time i bet i remember my camera. I appreciate the replys everyone. ps #2 hook ,white rabbit strip tail (2-3 inches) with hook point up through the stip clouser style, 1/40th oz lead eyes and yellow or silver estez body/head has been the big producer. pretty sure the fish are alerted by the smack/plunk when the fly hits the water 90% hit within 4 strips of the fly...no sink time needed.

just curious if anyone around the st. louis region targets catfish on the fly and whats a good day versus and poor day in terms of numbers. Ive been kayak fishing a small still undisclosed lake conected to a large creek just before it reaches the missouri...connected to the missouri for all intents and purposes. my first 40hrs catfishing at various locations yeilded a daily high of 5 cats...last thursday i got 27 plus catfish plus at least one monster that broke me off when it b-lined into the brush and numerous other bites and misses, 2/3 of the fish were 17-20 inches..it was for me an epic day. ive been back twice catching around 7 and then 15 fish. weather / water hight (rising falling steady)/ and wind realy seem to affect the location and concentration of the fish. for the most part a weighted white rabitt strip fly fished close to brush or in shallows can bring a strike in less than a second after the fly hits the water...or usualy they hit withing 0-5 strips. ive tried deep but have been having great luck with a floating line and 1/40th ounce lead eyes. Im realy starting to enjoy catfish...suddenly they are as beautiful as trout,... well almost. it strikes me that catfish are like northern pike in that they are agressive minnow eaters that like cover, be it brush or deep water, and will nail your 2-4 inch minnow fly hard. And they can realy fight. even the little ones have me thinking ive got a big one with my 8weight. plus you know there are monsters out there.....i think im hooked on catfish. if anyone around St. louis is fishing for these guys it would be great to figure out who you are and maybe we can stay in touch about whats going on with the fishing.

You can catch white bass (dont know about hybrids)in connected creeks...femme osage creek, bonhomme creek. I had one realy good day about a month ago.. plenty of 17- 19 inch fish..they were gone the next day havent seen them since in that spot . come to think of it I hooked something massive that day. caught some drum and alot of white bass and something huge. got two small white bass on the connected oxbow lake off of femme osage creek as water was hitting 20+ feet very high and probably not ideal. they might be good there at times helps to have float tube or kayak, limited fishing otherwise. how bout dardene creek behind #33 (small and sometimes hard to fish)...could be there this spring . maybe even Creve couer lake.

Thanks for the feedback Danoin

Curious to see if there are any cost savings associated with rod building not including time spent.... Also what is the time comitment and what is the cost for tooling up? much appreciated

guess no one fishes the river desperes...all good. Im probably being crasy. havent gotten down there yet..will post when i do

Yes sage will replace them with stainless...i asked if i could send in Fuji SiC ceramic guides and have them put those on instead because of the muddy sandy waters i fish but they will not... I would realy like ceramic guides but im not willing to void the waranty in order to put them on. sucks but i think I can understand their possition...sort of. still wondering weather building a rod is cheaper not considering time spent...anyone? thanks happy fishing things are starting to heat up out there.

thanks for the help. just called sage and doing the guides myself is going to affect my waranty, therefore Im not going to be doing this myself, though Id probably enjoy it. perhaps I will build a rod in the future. is there much cost savings excluding personal time spent?

Thanks rps. Ive got one more question....my rods an 8wt sage RPLxi.....what happens if I put 10 wt guides on or even 12 wt guides....doesn anyone have any idea of the pros and cons doing something like that?

Ive been fishing almost daily for a couple of months...no work...(big looser), and ive only broken the rod down maybe twice. anyhow with all the brown lining and sand lining ive been doing with the line hitting the guides in the exact same place ive worn nearly halfway through some of my tip guides. What sort of ordeal am i in for to replace them....do i just buy guides and replace them myself or is this something i should give to a pro. i tie my flies so i think i should be all good doing the work myself. any thoughts thanks

In recent years fly fishing for carp has started to become more and more mainstream. There are many a web site dedicated to carp/warmwater/and urban fishing. In LA, the LA river has become known amongst some fishermen for plentiful carp which can be caught there. Id be willing to bet that the Des peres river in ST.Louis is as good or better than the LA river for carp. I have seen the carp in one river des peres tributary stream and that stream is on my target list...however I have the suspicion that sighting fish and casting to them would be much easier in the River Des Peres itself. Has anyone out there seen carp in the river des peres, (location)? I know i should just go down there and look around, but it would be nice to hear how the carp are all stacked up in there before i go. regardless. I intend to fish this water...and i will keep anyone interested posted. Im also interested to hear if anyone has ever seen carp in forest park, and to what degree? probably another prime carp spot.

Anybody catching any carp in the STL? this years been semi productive for me. found a new little creek that connects to the missouri and its been fun at times. gotten a bunch of drum 1/3 of em in the 20 inch range. some nice white/hybrid bass on one falling high water day. had a monster that day, not sure but i think is musta been a carp..fly pulled out on him..foul hook? small crawdad has been a winner fished slow on the bottom this season. also big eyed pink sparkle nymph. hooked a 3' carp with one of those...lost him too. thing was like a tarpon when it got hooked then it took me straigt to a snag and transfered my fly to it!!!!! thats a first. directly from having a fish to having a snag! wtf. can you say pissed off (and baffled) but still stoked all the more commited to continuing the quest to understand and catch the carp. not having a job and not looking has been good for the fishing... anybody interested should check out roughfisher.com hes got some sweet flies . like saltwatery bass x trout flies. if anyone out theres seen any carp and is willing to divulge the location im still trying to figure out some good waters. close to home were i can see the fish.

Size hook ...length of fly , sparce or full., any flash.

Hey Trizkid...pretty sure it was a bowfin. they look alot like the snakehead but i think it was a bowfin. it was a pretty good fighter about 18-20 inches long.

Thanks everyone. im going to keep at it , every chance i get. keep you all posted. hey snaged, why do you call it the garden? lots of different fish? i think thats the most different species ive ever caught in one day, two of which were firsts. do you have a preference between carlyle and rend lake? thanks steve p ive had good luck with orange as well. and Trizkid... I dont know if it was a bow fin but i will figure it out soon. i dont kill anything when i fish, should that change? id rather not..like some fishermen are going to dent the population? i might be wrong. the thing i liked least about the garden was people leaving fish to die and rot on the bank. maybe im naive.

I went to rend lake today and fished the spillway below the rip rap section. the gar were thick in the am. got a few of them. I didnt fish the "black mass" till later in the day when i found it. there were some huge mofo carp "rising". however, I got absolute Zero carp response from a blue and white deciever type fly swung into where the big boys were rising. I also caught some little catfish, a nice largemouth bass, some drum, and a "snake" fish (snakehead?). and dont let me forget the high point of the day was getting two carp to sucumb to well placed mini bugger. i got those two, almost three , in a shallow pool outside the main channel that must flood durring high water. all in all it was a fine day fishing...accept that i was after some big boys but rome wasnt conquered in a day. probably try carlyle next time....its closer. im just stoked to hook a couple of carp in the mouth the way its supposed to happen. very satisfying .

thanks everyone for your contributions. I spent today fishing femme Osage creek / and backwaters.this is the place i see so many carp...that wont look at my fly! I was using a blue and white deciever today...I got three gar....a couple little white bass and a decent one...and a catfish. I had a huge wake come up behind the fly in the morning. the fish seemed to hit short and i missed him...wonder what the heck that was! later in the day I started to see lots of carp...Id cast past and strip the fly to the fishes nose and a couple of guys turned and looked, however i wasnt using the violent strip...something to try..i think it might work.? I just remembered ...while i was paddling up the creek i heard this ruckus in the brush up the bank and then i see this huge mamal bigger than a dog.! like a wild boar crash into the water and disapear...I thought to myself.."what the F... was that! then i hear more ruc us and ill be darn if it wasnt a 100lb beaver go crashing into the water. I tell you what, someone's eating good in the neighborhood! good god, Ive never seen anything like it. Ive spent a lot of time after these carp and not much to show for it...the hunt continues.

awesome. thanks dudes looks like good fun. does anyone know what weekends are like at rend lake spillway? now im wondering to myself....in the video i see "that dude" strip hard and fast and then raise his rod tip. was that a hook setting strip or is that the pace these guys are moving their fly? thanks again guys for the new insight into tailwater fishing for warmwater species.

I think mostly insect/crayfish looking patterns. woolybuggers maybe..and apparently clousers maybe fished dead drift??? I guess snagged in outlety three is talking aabout Buffalo carp??? when i fished femme osage creek off the missouri river I think all i saw was 99% asian carp and im not convinced it makes much sense to fish to them. as i think there primary food is zooplankton/algae...filter feeders. and no i wasnt thinking about horseshoe in charondolet but basicly in east st. louis or there abouts. whats the tactic for the tailwater fisheries snagged? thanks for the input guys,

Im new to carp specific fly fishing. Ive been out say 7-8 days this summer and not too much luck. I think im getting better yet its quite difficult. I spent this last weekend fishing to big heads or silvers in the femme osage creek. pretty sure they were asian cus they didnt seem to do anything but filter water and run from my fly. can these things be caught. ive heard people talk about catching the bigheads...im sceptical. maybe it was large mouth buffalo?? theres a couple of lakes at Busch wildlife, and ive fished to carp on the big river when it was low a few weeks back. that was pretty cool. maybe the water will go back down again. anyone know of better locations to sight fish. maybe horseshoe lake. i heard that avarages 2.5 feet and its good for bass. Ive also been to creve couer lake, lots of minnows and gar...I did see a mud flat, but no feeding carp. water was muddy...I dont think i like asian carp but if youve caught one on a fly id like to hear about it. any good carp water on the maramec? clear water would be awesome. sorry for rambling Thx

Thanks everyone for the help...I personaly dont consider a float tube a boat...nor would any reasonable person (?). The rules say no Boats....in my twisted fish crasy head Im free to use my float tube until a conservation agent tells me otherwise. whats the penalaty gunna be anyway?? 90 days in jail?

I also love this stream... I used to fish it often about 7 -10 years ago. my big fish for this water was i think two fish at 15-16 inches. realy cool for such a small stream. and yes there can be surface action but i always go that on subsurface flies or flies that floated briefly in deep riffles. I recall being way upstream...maybe tresspassing. I used to use 7x...and even used/(tried to use) my own hair as tipped.. the smaller the tippet the better the bite. prince nymphs / little green sparkly shrimp-nymphs / hackled green sparkly shrimp/ olive buggers were best for me. I never like to fish the lower section much though i have seen large fish there. just below the first road acces and above were my favorites. I dont know what its like now but Mill creek south of doolittle just past rolla is my most revered fishing spot. If you liked blue springs you might realy like Mill Creek. gas the way it is now, its a big price to pay to drive from st.l to rolla...for me at least. but it used to be one hell of a spot for me...and Ive only encountered I beleive one fisherman there in at least 8-9 days of fishing if not more. my kind of stream. though ive heard its no good now ? you cant believe everything someone says...fish a prince nymph if your smart. fish it tight to bank and grass with good flow 1-2 feet deep and fish the obvious pockets of deep water after riffles and around bends and root wads. fish are generaly eger but can be dificult....also fish the prince or maybe a bugger ..straight upstream and strip just fast enough that you can stay in contact with your fly when the fish hits...killer . I prefer a long thin leader/ tippet . my most awesome fishing was done there.