kkirchmer

Thanks Chief, I just love to fish and I'm trying to keep the tradition alive in my family. I've said it before we all have different opinions about management areas, bait, lures, and watercraft but we all love to fish. I have a pretty thick skin so I'll survive (unless smalliebigs shoots me) but I understand where he is coming from too. My thought is live and let live unless you are breaking the law and then you have to deal with the MDC and I don't want any part of that. I'll always have an opinion about what I like, and I love to hear the opinion of others because I have learned a lot on these forums that have changed my outlook on a few things. Happy Fishing,

Then why did it show a pic of a middle age balding man holding a smallie with a caption of "Kurt Kirchmer with a Castor River smallmouth caught on a live crawfish." if you have not baitfished since you were a kid. I would look into the article a little deeper, it may be a misprint. LOL, wow middle aged balding man. I just pulled up the picture and you are correct that is what it said, it was caught on a crawbug though but either way is fine for me it was a good fish and it swam happily back into the same hole where it has been caught multiple times since then. It's kind of crazy too because it is in the middle of a swimming hole just down from the DD Bridge where people are constantly stirring up the bottom. We have caught it the last three years. It is the biggest fish in that stretch that I have ever caught and it is really pretty up close, I was using a crappy disposable camera when I got the pic. Hey I am definately not against baitfishing, again if it was illegal then I would say follow the regulations but it isn't so if people want to take the time to catch bait and lug around a minnow trap then more power to them. I prefer a back pack and a fishing rod so I can walk as far as I want, plus on the way back this middle aged bald man usually gets in ankle deep water and doesn't want to drag anything more than what I need because I'm hot and tired. I don't have any hard feelings towards anyone for having an opinion bud, that's all the article was and I was just trying to answer a few questions.

My link LOL, did you just tell someone to use live bait for smallmouths after making this post??????? LOL jdmidwest Live shiners seined from the stream or fresh Crayfish. Proud American clinging to my guns, religion, values, and flyrods!! Avid outdoorsman for over 40+ years. Don't blame me...I voted for the other guy!!

Oh you also forgot this part "Yes I could travel to Tennessee or to Michigan and catch a 6 pound smallmouth out of a lake or large river but it doesn’t have the same appeal to me that wading an ice cold Ozark stream and fighting the best sport fish I have ever had a pleasure to catch close to home does." All of the people I know that use the term sport fish catch and release the fish they are talking about.

Oh you forgot to mention this part too "Everyone has a right to their opinion and I’m glad we have one of the best Conservation Departments in the country that actually listen to the residents when considering regulations. And I have faith they will ultimately make the right decision and do what is best for the wildlife and not what is best for us. Without the wildlife we will have nothing to hunt or fish and nothing for future generations to enjoy because you will always have people who abuse every system and ruin it for everyone else. Regulations aren’t a bad thing in my opinion." I guess I should have been more clear on the two sentences that were mixed together to turn me into the bait fishing, smallmouth killing, child eating, bunny crushing, he man woman hater that some would like me to be. LOL Sorry I'm just a guy who likes to fish and enjoy the best of what god gave us. I have plenty of pictures posted so you can give me horns and a tail if you like, I don't mind.

"Oaf Angler Is, Eeeek, A Baitfisher Of Smallies.. And a Meat Fisher Too." LOL, this is funny, great spin by the way. Where did I specifically say I target smallmouth with live bait? I did say "as a kid on the Current and Jacks Fork I caught a ton of sunfish, goggle eye, and if I was lucky a decent sized smallmouth and if it was legal to keep the fish we did and had it for dinner." And we did keep the occasional smallmouth when I was younger. But we were always following the MDC regulations, I always had a copy of the rules in my tackle box. I also said "Kids don’t care what they catch as long as they catch fish, and I can’t remember a trip that we couldn’t catch something with a crawdad below a split shot.' I guess if you try to spin it and run the two together it sort of makes sense. And we bait fished alot as a kid growing up, that was most of the fun spending an hour or so catching crawdads and minnows first thing in the morning. I do eat fish quite often, sunfish, goggle eye, and crappie are my favorite and I keep what the MDC says is legal. The majority of the fish I eat is tilapia from the store though. You can still fry it up and make it taste good. I'll give you an A for effort on making me look like some crazy fish destroying maniac. You did forget this one though "The MDC gets paid to study and protect our fisheries. I may not always agree with their regulations but they are looking at a broad picture and in my opinion most people who disagree with them are doing so based on their own wants and not what is best for the wildlife." I choose to catch and release and if I do keep it has never been bass of any species. You seem to have forgot to mention this part too " I can always find a place to fish that suits what I’m looking for whether it be a stringer for dinner or a personal best for a replica mount." I hope everyone is having a great year of fishing, I haven't been out as much as I would like but I'm looking forward to fall and hopefully catching my personal best smallie that gets photographed and put back like all of the other pictures I have posted on here. LOL

Quick question though, how do you keep from catching smallmouth if you baitfish for other species. And what if you catch a non-legal fish that swallows the hook while baitfishing for other species?

LOL, this wasn't about Catch and Release but I guess you can make that arguement. I haven't bait fished since I was a kid and I guess I should have been more clear but to be honest I wasn't thinking about that. If you notice I was talking about my fishing trips as a child and we did bait fish more back then. I still don't have a problem with people who choose to fish with bait, it's not illegal and I think for little kids it is more fun since they have a chance to catch crawdads and make minnow traps. For me it's more fun to throw on my back pack and grab my gear and wade fish, it's a heck of a lot easier to grab a tube out of my pack than catching crawdads and then dragging a minnow bucket. That's just my opinion.

I was about 10 and was fishing the creek that ran behind my house for sunfish. I wasn't paying attention and the copperhead was using my tackle box for shade. I reached down to grab something and it bit my hand. I still get a little edgy around them.

Where did I ever say anything bad about Catch and Release? Where did I say I've used live bait as an adult? Lol, I have never kept a smallmouth since I have been old enough to fish on my own. I do keep sunfish goggle eye, and crappie but even those are usually caught on a tube. I prefer a bitsy tube texas rigged. The smallmouth I caught was on a yum crawbug and it not only lived but has been caught since the picture. If you notice I was talking about bait fishing as a child because I wasn't real skilled with throwing a baitcaster at 4 and 5 years old. I think when children are young that is part of the fun, catching crawdads and minnows is part of the experience. I catch and release all bass regardless of smallmouth or largemouth because I choose to but I don't have a problem with people using live bait if that is what they choose because they aren't breaking the law. I love the fact that you publicly threaten people, I hope nobody ever gets hurt on your property because you might have a lawsuit on your hands. I also like the fact that you called me a tool without ever meeting me. It's kind of funny considering we agree in most threads. I hope you caught lots of fish and had a good time because that was the point of the original post to show that no matter what your reason is for fishing it should be fun and that the MDC has regulations for a reason. Have a great day.

The conservation agent in Madison county specifically told me Monday the water mark is not true. If you are floating they can't do a thing to you because the water is public property, if you are wading it is up to the agent on whether or not he wants to give you a ticket if the stream is on private property because the law isn't specific on whether the ground under the water is public domain, and if the stream is on private property and you are walking the bank you are officially trespassing. He said the only part of the law that isn't clear is the wading part, that is why he said he doesn't ticket anyone as long as they stay in the water but other agents have the right to ticket you for wading if there is private property on both sides of the river.

Smallmouth Alliance member: Consumptive anglers’ interests are addressed in plan By Dan Kreher, Missouri Smallmouth Alliance I appreciate the amount of attention that River Hills Traveler has given to the management issues surrounding smallmouth bass in Missouri’s streams and the responsible manner in which you have covered this topic. As you well know, Bob Todd is a very experienced angler with well developed opinions about fisheries management and angler interests. As a member of our Blue Ribbon Advisory Panel over the past two years, his input has been quite valuable in particular providing some keen insight into what consumptive SMB anglers might be looking for in terms of fisheries management changes. And, we believe that the Panel’s proposals recently put forth to the MDC, despite Bob’s seeming disdain for the expansion of Special Management Areas, are both sensitive to the interests of catch-and-release anglers such as members of the Missouri Smallmouth Alliance as well as to those anglers who prefer to take home their legal limit of stream SMB. In fact, in developing our proposal for a statewide length and creel limit change, the interests of consumptive anglers are well represented as 3 SMB exceeding 15” in length would be able to be kept to eat, plus a total of up to an additional 3 other black bass (largemouths and spots) exceeding the 12” MLL (unrestricted on spots in Meramec basin) for a total daily black bass creel limit of 6 fish. Again, in the Meramec basin, anglers can currently and still would be able to keep up to 12 spotted bass daily (in addition to their largemouth and smallmouth take). So, it seems to me that even with a reduction in the daily SMB limit, anglers would still have plenty of bass they could take home or clean for a shore lunch. The proposed updated statewide regulations for stream SMB — the current regs have been in place for 35+ years — in addition to supporting sustainable fisheries would provide better fishing for everyone while not unduly infringing on anyone’s past times. The Missouri Smallmouth Alliance’s proposals involving the expansion of the well-established Special Management Areas were based upon maximizing the quality (defined as both increased numbers of SMB and larger average sizes) of our better smallmouth streams through the use of regulations that have been proven to work to significantly improve angler catch rates, average sizes and proportional stock densities of larger SMB in the areas where they’ve been enacted by the MDC. True as documented in the White Paper, many of these existing Special Regs Areas did not meet the MDC’s stated goals of doubling the number of SMB between 12-15 inches and those over 15 inches, but it is hard to determine whether those doubling goals were realistic during the time of the study given the slow growth rates of Ozark stream SMB and their naturally low densities as predator species. Regardless, fishing was generally much improved in these areas compared to both the recent past and the control areas outside the Special Regs waters. Folks can certainly argue whether the Special Management Areas have improved angling enough to warrant their expansion, but MSA believes, as does the MDC, that the regs were effective and anglers generally supported them and would not oppose to their being more of them. Bob’s contention that these areas “ran folks off” needs to be put into context as well. Obviously if an angler’s goal is to take six SMB home to eat, he is going to avoid a stream section where you can only keep one SMB. However, the statistics cited by Mr. Todd are based upon the limited angler survey data obtained during the first few years of the Special Areas and are heavily skewed by the initial results on the Meramec stretch. But if you look as these figures more closely you’ll find that angler effort also fell off greatly in the control areas of the Meramec outside of the Special Regs Area during those early years and in nearly the same magnitude. If anglers were being run off from the more restrictive regs areas, were they going to an entirely other stream when less than 10% of the Meramec’s main stem was affected by these regs? It’s hard to say. Over time, however, as word spread that the quality of the Special Areas was indeed improving under the new regs, more and more anglers (likely C&R guys) began to frequent these reaches in search of better fishing. Angler surveys conducted in the later years of the study would bear this out and just about every article you read in outdoor publications about Missouri’s SMB stream resources notes one or more of the Special Management Areas as being bronzeback hotspots. MSA does not believe it productive to debate the angling pressure issue still further as the MDC appears to be convinced that the regs areas have been successful and popular with anglers. But, if one has a beef with the MDC’s numbers, I suggest they take it up with them. MSA’s proposed expansion of the SMB Special Regs Areas may appear to some as an aggressive campaign as we suggest essentially doubling the number of stream sections included in the program and increasing total stream mileage from about 350 miles up to 760 miles in total. Even so, this would still represent but a small minority of the available SMB stream resources in the state and would effectively provide a greater number of avid SMB anglers with increased opportunity to catch more and larger fish. Undoubtedly, there are some serious SMB anglers in the state who somehow don’t want to catch more fish or even larger SMB if it means throwing more back to let them grow up for a few more years, but as a long-time fishermen who is in a fishing organization more than 300 members strong, I cannot say I know many of these folks. Again, I believe that your publication’s coverage of this issue provides a forum for healthy debate and offers a great opportunity for angler input to help shape the future of stream SMB management in Missouri. Most who pursue stream bronzebacks are indeed passionate about it and have genuine interest in how these fragile stream fisheries are managed and sustained for current and future generations. Throughout the Ozarks, we are clearly blessed with some of the most beautiful streams in the country and are well recognized for this; the recent proposals offered by the Missouri Smallmouth Alliance are simply designed to make our stream SMB fishing resources just as noteworthy and appreciated by fishermen. We will continue to work on behalf of the resource and for the interests of avid SMB anglers across the state.

I spoke to the Conservation Agent for Madison County this morning and he said a lot of it is up to the descretion of the agent and sheriff. If you are wading a stream that has private property on both sides technically you can be charged with trespassing since the water is a public resource but the ground it flows on is not. It's illegal to park on the side of a county road but you may or may not get a ticket depending on the sheriff and also if you park on the edge of someones property technically it is trespassing if you don't have permission but if you do get cited it is ultimately up to the prosecutor for the county if you will be charged since it requires a court hearing. It's not worth the trouble in my mind, there are plenty of places to fish and a lot of really nice property owners who will allow you to fish if you ask and respect their property. It's the same old story a few ruin it for everyone so I can understand the property owners side if they have had people leave trash or destroy property.

I've read the article many times and in my opinion he is misleading folks. If you agree with him that is your right and more power to you sir. In my opinion he took a few shots at people because of his desire to eat fish, I love eating them as much as the next guy but I can eat other species and be happy. I guess it all depends on your view of the situation and that effects how you read the article. "I was trying to come to terms with the words, “world class smallmouth.” So went to Wilson Dam in Alabama, which advertises itself as the world capital of smallmouth bass. Indeed, the claim may be well-founded." The term world class fishing is different for everyone. "So what does it take to produce that kind of fishery? The fertile waters of the Tennessee River, for one thing. And a dam to concentrate bait fish." This is where he assumes world class fishing means that we have to dam an ozark stream to produce quality fish because he assumes world class to a stream fisherman means a reservoir size smallmouth. "And here we are in Missouri, the Smallmouth Alliance talking about creating “world class smallmouth fishing.” But we don’t have a Tennessee River or dams that are managed primarily for both hydropower and navigation, so I doubt we have the necessary flow charactoristics below any of our dams." Again using the generic term world class to try to compare stream small mouth to the mosters grown in lakes and large US rivers. He is correct we don't have the save environment to produce that type of fish but who said world class stream smallmouth was a football shaped lake smallie? "Having fished the Alabama world class smallmouth waters and our Ozark streams, I think the better thing to do is to let Alabama or Canada or whoever lay claim to the “world class” trophy titles for size." Again he is comparing apples to oranges and using the generic term world class to describe two different types of smallmouth fishing. "And just accept what we have here. Manage it in a reasonable way that includes a component of keeping and eating fish. There’s more to fishing than size of the fish. I live where I do because I love our Ozark streams. I give up a lot to live here. Economically and more. We have world class streams here. I can’t imagine anyone would say fishing at Wilson Dam in Alabama is a world class experience that compares with fishing an Ozark stream." Showing that he is for eating fish that others consider a sport fish and prefer to catch and release. If his article said I want to catch and eat fish so lets get rid of management areas I wouldn't have a problem at least he is being honest. "What makes fishing in the Ozarks so special is not the size of the smallmouth, but the beauty of the streams themselves. Size isn’t everything. Sportsmen dream of huge bass, monster crappie and bucks with antlers that reach the treetops. But we need reality too. I am opposed to taking our best waters to extend the special areas and imposing a 15-inch, one-fish limit that has driven away anglers." I agree the waters of the Ozarks are special I've fished them my whole life, in my opinion a length limit on one species doesn't change that fact. "Our Ozark streams are pretty special. World class, I’d say. They don’t have to grow the biggest smallmouth in the world." Why not have the best of both worlds?

I always ask permission if there is a house close by or if someone is in the area but where I was attempting to fish there weren't any visible houses. The other folks who were fishing there said they had fished that spot for years and hadn't had any issues. I'm going to call the Madison county Sheriff and see if he can give me his opinion. There are multiple county roads in that area where I usually fish and I have never had a problem. This is literally the first time in 15 years of fishing that river that anyone has ever said anything. Most folks will stop and chat but I do understand the worries of property owners so that's why I respected his wishes and moved on. He may have had a bad situation with someone he didn't know in the past and doesn't like strangers by his property.