eric1978

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. I think if the water is up a foot or more, the fish go as deep as they can and stick behind a chunk of cover and wait out the high water. They're just not going to waste their energy fighting strong current. Now maybe in the spring or early summer when the rains are warm it might get them moving a little more and chasing some food in faster water.

What a beauty! An absolute pig. Be sure to tell your son for us that he's a good man for letting her go. Well done.

Where have you read that? I was always under the assumption they were native.

Woke up this morning with a hankerin' for fighting some smallies, so I geared up and headed down 44. With the rains last night I started out with the intention of wading a small creek or two, hoping that they wouldn't be blown out. They weren't, but they were pretty swollen. I half-heartedly waded about a quarter mile before deciding it was a lost cause. I just don't know what do when the water is up in a stream. I try to cast to the eddys and deeper pools just like normal, but I can never tell if they are really fish holders or not since it's not how those spots normally look. So I headed to an old reliable honey-hole where I knew there were fish. For those of you who know this place, please don't mention it's name. Sorry guys, it's just too little to take any more pressure. I usually try to get here a couple times a year. It's really hit or miss, but I've caught some beasts out of this hole. I've been here a couple times in the spring after a moderate warm rain, and the fish are going NUTS on just about anything you throw at them. I've also been skunked here, especially on days I see other fisherman (never seen anyone else on a weekday). It's usually very clear, and sometimes I'll catch one fish, then see a few of them swim up close and check me out, and that's that. It's dead. The fish in here baffle me. They turn on and off like a switch. I'd catch half a dozen on 10 casts, then nothing for an hour. Then another 6 or 7 on another ten casts, then nothing. Weird. I caught a total of 22 fish, 15 largemouth and 7 smallmouth. No spots in this baby! Nothing really to write home about. Took all fish on a spinnerbait and Dog-X. These two little pigs were the best of the day. The smallie just barely broke 15 inches but what a fatty! This little guy was voted most ambitious of the day. He jumped about 3 feet in the air when he took the dog. I have a soft-spot for scrappers and I know he'll be a big fella one day (even though my treble ripped his lip a little...sorry buddy). ANYWAY, the point of the thread was: Do you guys have any tips for fishing high water? I mean of course when a stream is blown out it's over, but the water wasn't really that high today, and I feel like if I knew where to look for the fish, I could have caught them today. I know they were feeding, just didn't know where.

No, I know that face. That face says, "I wish I hadn't eaten that eigth hot dog and polished off that fifth of Jack last n...uh...wait...where's the toilet paper?"

I'm not sure he actually kept them. "Kept" may have been slang for fish big enough to be keepers, but released. At least I hope so.

You were absolutely correct hoglaw...MDC says: "It is also illegal...to intentionally leave or abandon any commonly edible portion of any fish." Good call and thanks for taking the time to wise me up. It's nice having a pro-bono attorney workin' for us here, ain't it? Maybe I'll just stuff a piece of Alka-Seltzer down a spot's throat before I release him. See if there's any precedence for that will ya? Just messin'. Thanks for the advice, though.

Spots are native to the southern flowing river systems in the Ozarks. They are not native to the Meramec. I don't know much about the Gasconade, but I would guess they are not native there, and either are a problem now or will be in the near future. In rivers where the spots are native, the smallmouth and largemouth have had millenia to adapt and find a balance with the spots, and they have reached an equilibrium, and therefore are not a problem. The spots were introduced into the Meramec system in the last few decades and they BOOMED and now it's spot overload in the lower sections of the Meramec, Big and Bourbeuse. It's been said by those who know on this forum that they believe every spot in a Meramec stream means one less smallie. The Big and Bourbeuse are not strongly spring-fed like the Meramec, so the slower, warmer water makes the habitat perfect for spots, and they are taking over. The Meramec has many springs that keep the water cooler and the current faster, which the spots can tolerate, but prefer the slower, warmer waters of the lower Meramec. The Huzzah and Courtois are similar to the upper Meramec in temp and current and also seem to be able to keep out the majority of the spots....for now anyway. Spots in the White River and its reservoirs are native and not a problem. I don't believe spots are native in the LOZ, but since they seem to coexist okay with largemouth, and there are no smallmouth in LOZ, I guess there's not a problem. Don't really have all the facts on the last two assumptions. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

And you had me feeling like a moron.

I like getting a good one to camp on, but I guess I'm usually looking at the other side of the river, since that's where I'm fishing.

Ya got me. That was just a wild guess. I have no idea. I guess I don't pay that close of attention to gravel bars.

Current around Round Spring

Is the water wadable that high (up past Mint) or do I need to bring my canoe?

Agreed on every point. I'm going to check it out way up high in the next few weeks, and if I don't see different results from the middle Bourbeuse, I hate to say it, but I may not be back for quite some time.

They're not native in the Meramec River system.

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into it. I'm torn because I want to do the right thing for the stream, but I'm not going to drag a bunch of stinking dead spots around with me in the canoe all day. I do hate killing anything, especially when I'm not going to eat it. But I also hate releasing a spot when I know it probably means one less smallmouth.

They removed the length limit on the Meramec and its tribs, but I don't think it's enough. You're right, the meaters don't care. That's why I think every stream with non-native spots need to be made SMAs. The spots do enough to decrease smallmouth populations; we don't need to be harvesting the few that make it. By removing the limits on the spots, there may be some illegal largemouth taken on accident by those who can't identify the difference, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to identify a smallmouth. They're just too distinct to be mistaken. To me, smallmouth in the Meramec system need to be considered an endangered species, because that's what they are: in danger. But because smallmouth are abundant and flourish elsewhere, it doesn't seem to be of much concern to those who make the rules. They don't want to upset people by "making laws," which always causes backlash simply because some people have this irrational fear of "government tellin' me what I can do." I don't really see how anyone could get that upset if MDC said, "you can have all the spots you want, and a few largemouth according to the established limits, but release all the smallmouth." Smallmouth are far more precious to those interested in catching them than to those interested in eating them. You'd be hard-pressed to find a forum on the internet based on how tasty smallmouth are and the best ways to cook them. The smaller bass taste better anyway, and if the spots are nothing else, they're definitely small. I truly believe that the creel laws are generally set not according to what's best ecologically, but rather by the imaginary parameters of what the biologists feel they can get away with without ruffling the "anti-government feathers." Not all laws are bad. The law that says you can't go stealing someone else's car isn't very convenient for car thieves, but it works pretty well for the rest of us. A law establishing the protection of a beloved species will of course anger a few, but the negative reaction would pale in comparison to those who appreciate it. On top of that it would be better for the dang-gum ecosystem anyway. Duh! I'm gonna go calm down.

Agnew says to match the color of the streambed (or lake bottom in your case). I've always tried to match the color of the crawdads in the water I'm fishing, but since they are invariably close to if not exactly the color of the bottom, Al's method makes a lot of sense. If you are in clear, rocky water, go for a brownish color. If the water is more fertile and the bottom has more color to it, try a greener color. If the water is more stained than that, I'll try a darker color so the fish have a better chance of seeing it. If I see a crawdad and I have a color identical, I'll use it. Otherwise, close is usually good enough.

I posted a fishing report on the upper-middle Bourbeuse yesterday. In it I reported that my buddy and I caught more spots than smallmouth and largemouth combined. And that was up pretty high. I think they are a MAJOR problem on the Bourbeuse and a SMA should be enforced. I only caught about 10 smallmouth in about 8 miles of river, only one of which was quality, a little over 17 inches. Giggers don't help, but I think the spots are the main problem. Too bad we can't inject anti-spot juice into the streams.

Why would you take the time to show someone how your fish was hooked? Are you fishing for them or for you? Who cares what they think? It's like making someone watch you play a game of solitaire. There's no joy in cheating whether someone else knows you did or not. It's about you and the fish and the stream, and that's it. They can say I used a seining net for all I care, I know I didn't. I don't know how you guys fish at those parks. It would be like trying to find peace at Six Flags.

I know smallmouth will school up in streams, I usually see them that way in the fall and winter, but I think it's more of a defensive behavior than for feeding. But if a school of baitfish move through their area, they're gonna go after them. I doubt they're following schools of shad like whites, but when they're all feeding at once it may look that way. By the way, call me stupid, but what the heck is a "fish doctor?"

Yeah, you're bound to be alone on the Bourbeuse, at least up high. Aside from the giggers we saw at night, we saw no one else on the water except for some local kids playing around in a pool near their property. We saw zero floaters or other fisherman. I suppose there's a reason for that, though.

I've also heard that but I used that chiggerid stuff when I was a teenager and it didn't really work for me.

The 17 incher was a great fish and made my day. But the river in general was a little disappointing. Yep, the amount of spots we caught surprised us, too. A spot was the first fish I caught when we put in at Mill Rock, and the majority of fish we caught were spots. The largemouth and smallmouth were all bigger than the spots and nice and healthy, but you can tell there is something wrong in paradise there on the Bourbeuse. I decided to make a point to return in the next few weeks. I'm gonna go way high upstream and just wade a stretch. If I catch more spots than smallmouth above Mint, I won't go back. I hate feeling that way because it's so close to St. Louis, but the extra 30 minutes to the Meramec is probably worth it (in the off-season anyway). I think MDC needs to start a SMA on the Bourbeuse, in my opinion. Why why why can't they make just one species of fish off-limits??? Sigh.

Floated the Bourbeuse with a buddy yesterday, from Mill Rock to Wenkel. 78 degrees, slightly overcast, nice weather. Put in around 11:00 A.M. Water clarity normal for the Bourbeuse, moderately stained. Current: none. Slow slow slow river. I've forgotten how slow it is. Started off paddling through the dead water and focusing on the pools around the riffles, with little results. Few small fish here and there, nothing to speak of, and not really where I expected them to be. The smallies were relating to rocky banks with pretty much no current. I guess they got used to living in slack water since most of the river is that way. Didn't really catch many fish where riffles drop into pools, in eddys, etc, the types of places you'd think they'd be. Couple hours into the float, started fishing a long pool with just the slightest current running over a smattering of boulders in about 5-7 feet of water. Caught a nice 17 inch smallmouth on a white spinnerbait and a few other smallies and chunky largemouth in that hole. The 17 incher turned out to be the best fish of the day, but made the trip for me. Thought I hooked one of those boulders when he hit my spinnerbait. The river was so slow that we were really either paddling, dragging, or not moving all day, so we were only at the half-way point by around 5:00 P.M. We started paddling our butts off and I was pretty frustrated to haul past some really nice looking spots, but we had a long way to go in just a little time. Wound up getting back to the take-out about an hour after dark. Floating at night on a slow, skinny river isn't much fun. Had a leech on my toe, but got him off before he latched on. Gross. All in all, caught about 50 bass between us, about half of them small spots. The rest of them about equal numbers smallmouth and largemouth. All fish taken on spinnerbaits and flukes, a few on a Sammy where the leaves weren't a problem (they're starting to fall already) and my buddy caught a few on a jerkbait. The fishing seemed slow but I have the feeling it was simply because the Bourbeuse has a bass problem. The fish we caught were aggressive and eager to feed, there just didn't seem to be very many fish to catch. I've caught that many fish wading one mile of a decent creek. Saw two giggers at night on our last mile of the float before take-out, and we were really pretty far upstream for jet-boats. Wonder why there are no fish? I won't be going back to the Bourbeuse anytime soon, at least not anywhere below Mill Rock. Too many spots. I might try wading way upstream past Mint or float up there in the spring.