Palin / Pebble Mine

[Fishhand]

How are we supposed to support a world with so many (really too many) people without extracting resources?

Nobody will take me seriously, but the problem with all of this is population control. There is no need for everyone to have six or eight kids.

Food shortages, high oil demand and other supply issues are all attributed to too many people.

1 kid to replace you when you die is enough.

I'm all for freedom and liberty, but I know what is causing the world's issues.

bigredbirdfan,

I listened to the Cardinals pregame this evening. Wasn't able to listen to the game, but, I did hear Mike Shannon talking with a guy that pitched 22 years in the league. I had to leave my automobile and I never did get his name, but, darn I wanted to. When this particular gentleman was a rookie or second year player he had Sandy Koulfax give him some advice. The advice was, in summarization, "Listen to a man because it's the polite thing to do. Take that which applies to you because it's the smart thing to do." IMO, you have taken nothing from this thread nor previous threads in different topics because none of it applies to you. Try to think like a fisherman. This is a fishing forum. I've surmised from your previous posts, you have a family and enjoy fishing. That's great. But, you are not a true fisherman in the "romantical" sense. Real facts don't necessarily apply when the source of that information is bogus. If you fished these creeks, streams and rivers nearly everyday, you would see the effect greed has on the ecosystem.

The guys who spoke on the thread I provided were obviously fishermen. I do not know any of them, but, you could tell every one of them were against the Pebble Mine project. Just like everyone in the Ozarks fishing community was against the Overlook Development going in down on the Norfork. And, the Overlook Development was just the clearing of trees and siltation runoff into a managed trout river. Just imagine if the tailings pool from the Pebble Mine project were to burst during an earthquake. The world's largest run of Sockeye Salmon decimated. Even the tailings pool may effectively put enough effluent runoff in the streams to negatively effect the ability of the Sockeyes to even find their spawning grounds. That run of salmon is priceless. It has taken eons to develop and for one mine constructed from greedy ambitions to destroy it is just wrong. I don't care about commodities, copper, gold and the other one I don't even remember how to spell. The world has enough gold. Enough gourmet popcorn stands. Enough Brazilian maple hardwood entry doors. Give me a break. Who really needs it when the environment is the one getting raped. The economy of America needed a slowdown and a reality check. Governor Palin and/or VP Palin will just extend the exploitation of our natural resources. While that exploitation may defer our overall costs in the short term and keep our economy stable, those costs will be immeasurable in the long term. Just a thought. Let me know if the Cardinals won.

Edit:

http://www.dnr.state.ak.us/opmp/mining/ballot_4_effects.htm

[Fishhand]

We all want what we have, however, and are unwilling to give it up. We want air conditioning and all other luxuries. SOMEONES land was torn up to produce those products. I am not for the mine, dont get me wrong. But I am a realist too. Everything is driven by money and its the same wherever YOU WORK> IF you dont make money, you cant get a paycheck. So other things have to bend to your will. You cant name a job where that is not true.

k

I agree kevinkirk, we all want what we have and are unwillling to give it up. However, as Al Agnew states, there are, "TRUE COSTS. If you compute the true costs of everything we do and every product we buy, you'd soon find that a serious effort at recycling would lessen the pressure to mine every available place. However, like I said in another thread, as long as the consumer only pays the sticker price and somebody else, or all of us, pay for the pollution and clean up costs and health costs and loss of salmon runs cost, mining new resources will always trump recycling the same resources."

[Trav]

Now that is funny. Especially when you think about all the time you spend on just this forum. Oh that is rich!

Hey Chief,

I never said I was anti social. I am sure there is a fine line between the two.

I am seeing a shrink because I have certain lacks in social grace. Big surprise.

The only issue I have with the guy is that he wants to focus on my anger management defaults. For some reason that really pisses me off!

It's all good though, I kind of like the guy and am amused at him trying to figure me out when I obviously have more education than him. Sometimes I feel like I am analyzing him instead but for conversation sake I get some resolve from the sessions if not patience.

[Danoinark]

This idea will affect most of you down there.

We know that as Americans, we do many things that are not needed in our lives. Too many cars, too much food, too many toys, etc. But lets just focus on one excess. The idea of vacations. NO ONE needs to go on vacation. That is a luxury. How many of you are willing to forgo that luxury not only for yourself, but for everyone else. That means that no one comes to Branson and spends money and taxes?

Look at the condos being built there for WHO? I havent figured that out yet either but how many resources it takes to build those. Copper for wiring, aluminum, steel, plastics, carpet, tile, shingles, and on and on and on. THAT has to come from somewhere.

We all point our fingers at certain places or things the corporations do but we all are a part of the problem as we demand those same products that the mining produces. The flooding there is the same. Its a result of the dam being there for hydroelectric power. However, there were many floods on the river before the dam was put in so this is better. Sure ruined some pretty hill country tho.

Now my pet peeve of all time. GOLF> what a colossal waste of resources. Water, water, water, chemicals, fertilizer, gas for mowers, tearing down trees, ppl coming using more and more resources to get there etc., bath and shower use and waste water increases, food, and on and on. BUT we want it and WE deserve it gosh darn it. Because I work hard....hah..

Like I said, I am part of the problem too so preaching to the choir here. We either have to totally change our economy or mine more and more areas. Is it good? Heck no. Will fish die? YEP. Will we lose entire spawning grounds? sure will. IT has happened over and over from the loss of the great buffalo herds to the overfishing the ocean. TOO MANY PPL eating too much food and wanting too much land and resources.

Cut it down, use it up, we want it NOW.....american way. It will not change. When gas went up, people still bought it and complained instead of changing their ways.

Every person who is so upset about the mine, What are YOU willing to give up. Your job, your businesst, your lifestyle. I dont think so. I hate it too but we are all guilty when we walk into Walmart and buy buy buy

Kevin there is some truth to those statements. All of this is the product of our over indulgence and we are paying for it. I fully understand why some of the mining, drilling and other ways of obtaining raw materials are done this way because primarily its less expensive than the alternatives. If the companies used more costly mining techniques the end product would be more expensive. An example is mining for gravel in the area streams which I adamantly oppose. Sand and gravel aggregate is less expensive than crushed stone aggregate, thereby the miners are able to hold their costs down, but the real costs comes to the stream; damage to the stream bed, loss of habitat, loss of clean gravel and large stone for spawning, disrupted flow, warmer water temperatures and in some cases no flow at all.

Dano