Ethanol Problem

[Don Allenbaugh]

There has been some discussion on the problems with ethanol and I did some research into the problems and the possible help available.

First of all Sta-bil now has a Marine Formula Sta-bil ethanol treatment. I have not tried it yet but I just bought some at Bass Pro Shops.

I did found the following on Boat US and think it is worth reading (I am not endorsing this product as I have not used it):

The biggest problem with ethenol (E-10), which is really one problem among many, is that E10 breaks down into water. Now, Gas and Diesel were known for years to break down into water at a 1%-2% rate. You can see this to be true in the manufacture of fuel tanks. All fuel tanks set the pick-up for the gasoline (the line to take the gas to the engine) not at the bottom of the tank, but rather just above to leave 1%-2% in the tank.

So, this break down problem exists with E10. The government studies told us that "1-2%" breakdown would be all that would occur, plus it would "burn cleaner; yadda, yadda, yadda." Well, that's not what actually happened. Most consumer groups have found that 3-5% breakdown is the standard with 8% as a high reported. Further, the fuel begins to break down after just 28 days- this begs the question of "when does the 28 days begin?". The 28 days begins when the fuel goes into the storage tanks before it is even brought to your gas station's or marina's fuel storage tanks. So, because of this, the water gets past our fuel tanks and into the water seperator- further, it can get past that and wreak havoc on our fuel pumps, injectors, fuel lines, engines, etc.

So, what is the cure?

Traditional fuel treatments fall primarily into two groups; Surficants and Emulsifiers.

Surficants cause the moisture content of fuel and the freestanding water in the tank to sink to the bottom where it can be drained or pumped out. This water bottom usually goes undetected until it causes major problems. Surficants contain petroleum distillates and can do nothing with the water. Oil and water do not mix. Lucas is what I used to use and it falls in this category as does Valvoline and many others. You can tell what it is because the bottle has to give a warning label that it is petroleum based. Can you even drain your tank? I couldn't and had to have it pumped out along with my overhaul.

The other type is called an Emulsifier. Emulsifiers absorb a small portion of the water and allow it to be burned off during operation. They still leaves a water bottom. The water that is in suspension with the fuel exposes all metal fuel system components to water, causing rust and corrosion of injectors, pumps, etc. Startron and Sta-Bil are examples of Emulsifiers.

Both of these traditional fuel treatments lead to additional costs and increased equiptment failure and downtime. Who wants to be repairin' when they can be fishin'?

Unfortunately, I found this out the hard way. Fortunately, I have plenty of time because the commercial truck sales that I normally do is pretty darn slow. Anyways, I was shown a product called Sentry Gas- they also have Ethenol RX for your first time treatment. Sentry is different than the other two types, in fact, they're unique.

Sentry treatments initiate a process of Micro Encapsulation and Valence Bonding, converting all water to a combustible liquid. The water then becomes a component of a combustible liquid that will pass through all filters and burn off in the combustion process. This burning is kinda like a chemical water injection system for a truck that removes all carbon deposits from pistons, valves, and cylinders. (This water injection also increases horsepower!)

It's real easy to see this for yourself. Just take a little glass bottle, put some fuel in it, then put some treatment in it, and then put some water in it (in equal amounts). Next put the lid on and shake it up. You'll still see the layer of water on the bottom. For some real fun, put a nail in it and wait a week or two so you can see what is happening to the bottom of your tank. It ain't pretty...

This test with Sentry shows no water, and a week later there is no rust on the nail. This test with Startron leaves water on the bottom and a very rusty nail. Decide for yourself.

I buy it from my friend at

www.sentrytreatments.com/jasons ;

[Bman]

WOW!!!

Sounds promising, I've been using Sta-Bil and running fine.

You mention at the top of your post you bought the new marine grade stabil, why are you buying both? Whats the difference in regular (red) stabil and the new marine stabil other than color?

Thanks for the post.

Bman

[John Berry]

I have gone to 100% gasoline and eliminated the problem. The Ty Star station between Gassville and Mountain Home sells it.

[Flyfisher78]

I have gone to 100% gasoline and eliminated the problem. The Ty Star station between Gassville and Mountain Home sells it.

John

In addition to TyStar I was told the Phillips66 station in Mountain Home on 62B east has 100% gasoline. It's located at the top of the hill, on the right, just before you drop down to WalMart.

James

[BredMan]

I've use 'Seafoam' in my gasoline mix for years now and it does the trick. My outboard is going on 23+ years and still runs like new. I also use 'Seafoam' in all my other gasoline engines. Ethanol blended gasoline is all we have in my area and I have never had any issues yet. Definitely a product that does work.

[Don Allenbaugh]

I haven't used the Marine Sta-bil yet but I did buy it. It says it is for ethanol problems.

John, I cleaned my tank and filled it with Tystar also. Then, my neighbor told me he had not had any problems and used Tystar amd the problems started. I hope that doesn't happen to us. According to one source the local marines along with the cottor trout dock have gas without ethanol. Anyone know for sure?

[Phil Lilley]

We sell gas without ethanol. I bet most marinas sell it if they can get it.

[captmac]

Some one correct me if I'm wrong but I understood the 10% ethanol was only in regular unleaded so buying the next step up would solve the problem

[Don Allenbaugh]

Ethanol is in all grades.

[dave potts]

First off, ethanol does not "breakdown into water". Ethanol is hyroscopic and therefore absorbs water from the atmosphere. That's not a big problem for cars as they have a closed fuel system as opposed to vented systems in most marine engines. I know of no magic additives that will prevent this.

Secondly, ethanol is a powerful solvent and will therefore attack the seals over time and lead to big problems.

The best solution is to use alcohol free gas if you can get it. As Phil points out, most marine dealers can get a waiver and sell alcohol free gas even in Missouri where state law mandates its use at all filling stations. The higher octane gases in Missouri also contain alcohol.

Somehow we must convince the politicians how much damage ethanol is doing and get widespread waivers on mandating its use in all gasoline being sold. If we want to use it in our cars-fine. But give the consumer a choice.

Dave