Trolling For Bass And/or Walleye

[Whack'emGood]

[Trolling For Walleye]

TFW, Ken Shultz's book has been around for years and is geared more toward Great Lakes and coastal fishing. Assuming you know how to work your downrigger and you want to look at other, easier delivery methods, Precision Trolling offers a ton of usable trolling info plus specific dive curves for most major crankbaits. (Since the depths you'll be fishing are attainable without the rigger, you'll probably want to run more than one rod.) PT is the easiest way to ensure your bait is working in the strike zone; most walleye guys around here use it religiously.

http://www.precisionangling.com/

I received this book today.. i've thumbed through it for about 45 min.

I've got to say I'm really disappointed.

1) it doesn't have my primary lure: Hellbenders

2) i thought it was going to discuss the art and technique of trolling and have a lot of explanations, and all i got was a book of lures and depths.

I'm thinking about returning it..

I was looking for a book on the theory and technique of trolling.. not what lures go to what depth... especially when I only own 2 of the lures in the entire book... I should just write down the stuff from those 2 lures and ship it back.

Also what speed does it assume you troll at? I don't have a trolling motor so I just have my outboard goes as slow as it can go.. i assume it's going about 3-4 mph.

I also don't have a line counter to know how far back my lure is anyway... I just count to "twenty-mississippi" and then lock the line. and it didnt' even touch on downrigging..

:( :(

[rps]

I can try to answer a few questions from your last post. In the process maybe I can add some insight into what is behind my comments so far.

When I discovered trolling as an effective technique, I, too, used hellbenders for my primary deep bait. Caught some very nice fish on them. I did not have the precision trolling book in those days and I used my flasher sonar to determine depth and the number of times the casting reel pawl traveled back and forth to determine how much line was out. I would make a pass on a known depth flat and figure out how much line was needed to reach the bottom with the bait. If I had to, I added lead above the bait. In those days I typically fished with 14 pound test mono. To reach 20 feet, I often had lead attached. 30 feet was beyond reach, even with the hellbenders that were so large only stripers would take them.

I used the old Buck Perry book plus some reading I did in the old Fishing Facts to refine my techniques from that point. I find it much easier not to mess with weights on the line and (most of the time) the fish prefer smaller baits than the 800 magnum. I learned that line diameter made a huge difference. I learned that some inexpensive baits caught fish and dove well. I learned the key was to know how deep your bait was, even if it wasn't hitting bottom. The Precision Trolling books helped with all of these considerations.

BTW, the most recent edition of the book has half as many lures as the sold out previous edition. The reason, according to the owner/publisher, was that the decision to print on waterproof tyvek pages meant expenses went way way up. They cut the less popular lures from the new edition. When I emailed my complaint about the missing lures, they sent me a nice reply and a free copy of the older edition. That edition did not have hellbenders either. One of the keys to understanding this absence is to remember the authors are northern walleye/lake trout guys. Hellbenders were always more popular in the south. Now you may be a transplanted northern type who just happens to know and fish hellbenders, but, if so, you are bucking the trend.

Anyway, after I moved over here in 2002 I began refining my trolling methods for the walleye in the lake. I still prefer to catch bass by casting. You'll note my avatar is Zara Spooks. Walleye, on the other hand, rarely hit topwaters and are shallow for very limited times of the year. The clear water in Tablerock and its southern location mean the fish are often deeper than 20 feet. I also learned that the walleye frequently suspend in the woods.

As mentioned by others, leadcore and number 5 shadraps are very effective, especially on unwooded inside bends where flats drop into channels. Leadcore is expensive and hates when you stop or pause - it sinks to the bottom to find any available snag. I have not mastered its use. Instead I learned to use braid teamed up with wiggle warts, hotntots, and xcaliber fat free shad. These are comparatively cheap baits, often on sale, and they work! I later learned that the Cabelas reef runner knock offs are cheap and work as well as the baits they imitate. The number of baits I lose in the woods is higher than I will willingly confess, but I do catch fish. If you want an example of the walleye woods I hunt, go to the mouth of Rock Creek - it is between Big M and Owl Creek. The long, long point there is known as the Devils Backbone. Much of that point, and its submerged sides, has wood below normal waterline. I have caught many walleye from that area.

I usually start hunting walleye by finding out the depth of the thermocline. Many sonar units will show a well developed thermocline, but none are as good as the old paper graphs for that and early in the year the thermocline is not as definite. Talk to the folks at the ramp/marina, read the forum here, or invest in a thermometer you can drop over the side. The fish will typically be at or just above thermocline, either on bottom or suspended. As a very rough rule of thumb, in "normal" years on Table Rock that means 12 to 17 feet in early June and 35 feet in late August. During low light periods, the fish will often be shallower, but during the day they key to the bait schools and the thermocline.

I will start trolling at the shallowest depth I supect based on the thermocline and bait schools and will change baits and line lengths to test deeper as needed. That is where the precision trolling book helps so much. I can run the reef runner knock off with 80 feet out and I can run it with 165 feet out. I know, based on the book, that 80 feet means 17 feet deep and 165 feet means 25 feet.

I realize I have answered your post with more information than you probably expected. I hope some of it is useful. For the last part, lets talk speed. I have found 1 to 2 mph are the most effective trolling speeds. My 90 hp will not go that slow. I have tried trolling plates (they are a pain and they break) and as of now simply put the motor in and out of gear to control the speed. Soon I will either invest in an 8hp kicker to troll, or I will upgrade to a 24 volt troll motor with enough thrust that I can troll at that speed without running at full bore and draining the battery.

Good luck.

[Quillback]

Does the Precision Trolling book have charts for Bandit crankbaits? That's what I use trolling for crappie on Beaver, and they do pick up the occaisional walleye.

I'm also looking to get a boat I can mount a small kicker motor on in addition to the main motor. I'm also considering a deep V layout in the 16-17 foot range. Anyone have any recommendations?

[swellcat]

What a great, comprehensive thread. Thanks, rps and others.

To the thread originator: You know Smithville has walleye, right? (Not that I'm looking to get plowed over out there by the SS Minnow.)

[rps]

Hello Quillback. Hope the New Year has started well for you.

My books are in the boat and I am in town, but I seem to remember the next to last edition (the one I replaced with the new tyvek version when I left the old one in the rain) had some/most of the Bandit sizes. I think the new one might as well. I can tell you the 300 Bandits run almost exactly the same depth as the fat free shads and wiggle warts that are in the book. I have not compared the walleye bandits, but based on their build, I would guess they will fall somewhere between the Rapala tail dancer and the Cordell wally minnows. Both of those are in the book.

[rps]

Amazingly, the old Buck Perry book is still in print. Try this link:

http://www.fishingfacts.com/products.htm

He uses his spoonplugs as examples. I bought some but they really hung up easy as they sank when you slowed or stopped. Your best chance of coming unstuck when trolling is to let the pressure off and let the plug float up and backward. However, the techniques he describes are effective.

[Trolling For Walleye]

RPS > you mention leadcore several times, but in the Precision trolling book, it says that leadcore is on the outs because snap weights (which i'd never heard of until reading this book) are the easier less expensive way to gets baits down to weight.

1) why do you use leadcore as opposed to snap weights

2) if you were me.. wouldn't you just down-rig instead of using either?

[powerdive]

Yes, of course, use your downrigger. It's more precise than any other system.

But what are you gonna do for your other rod(s)?

Walleye trolling is a whole new ballgame for most folks down here. It's easy to get overwhelmed by technology and new approaches. Here's the deal: You need to know approximately how deep your bait is running. Otherwise, you will seldom, if ever, catch a walleye in this lake. There just aren't that many in there, and they tend to stay at a very well defined level during the daytime. That level may change some day to day, but RPS has told you the general seasonal trend.

In this clear water, walleyes WILL come up to take a bait. But not very far. They don't have to, thanks to the abundance of shad.

If you absolutely, positively want to know how deep your Hellbender will run, you can a) test it yourself on a deep sandy flat, or be real nice to Martin and maybe he'll tell you.

[powerdive]

I have found 1 to 2 mph are the most effective trolling speeds. My 90 hp will not go that slow. I have tried trolling plates (they are a pain and they break) and as of now simply put the motor in and out of gear to control the speed. Soon I will either invest in an 8hp kicker to troll, or I will upgrade to a 24 volt troll motor with enough thrust that I can troll at that speed without running at full bore and draining the battery.

Hey rps, the easiest way to slow down is to toss out a drift bag on each side before you start trolling. (Maybe not good inside the timber, though!) You don't need the mongo units--the 24" to 30" will handle things just fine. Just run 'em off cleats just ahead of your console. You'll only need 4-6 feet of rope for each--just enough to get them under the surface.

Not only will they slow you down, they'll make boat control much easier. The wind won't be able to push you around, and your hull won't bounce so much in the wakes and waves.