Public Stream Laws - Navigability

[Poke 'Em]

Also keep in mind that both Missouri and Arkansas have laws which make it illegal to interfere with someone who is legally fishing. So when you're legally fishing a navigable stream and some landowner with an attitude tries to make you leave, YOU call the cops. Not him.

[RSBreth]

Yeah, this issue has two sides, and both are right or wrong, depending on point of view, who is armed, and God knows how many other issues.

Here around Ozark we go round and round about a couple of access points off the county road bridges over the Finley. According to the late Charlie Farmer this problem has been going on ever since he moved over here, years and years ago.

I had a talk with a landowner east of here who owns land around Johns Ford this past weekend, and all of his problems with drunks hanging around there at night. He says he has the right to keep people off his land, which he thinks includes the river bottom itself- because he owns land on each side of the river. I told him, nope, you don't own that, it's public land. He disagreed, but warmed to my idea that if it is public land, the people partying are drunk in public, and the Sheriff can arrest them for it. Doesn't matter much for us fisherman, he's cool with us because he knows we aren't a problem.

The fact he also saw me picking up trash off "his land" as I was taking out couldn't have hurt, either.

[ozarkgunner]

Yeah, this issue has two sides, and both are right or wrong, depending on point of view, who is armed, and God knows how many other issues.

Here around Ozark we go round and round about a couple of access points off the county road bridges over the Finley. According to the late Charlie Farmer this problem has been going on ever since he moved over here, years and years ago.

I had a talk with a landowner east of here who owns land around Johns Ford this past weekend, and all of his problems with drunks hanging around there at night. He says he has the right to keep people off his land, which he thinks includes the river bottom itself- because he owns land on each side of the river. I told him, nope, you don't own that, it's public land. He disagreed, but warmed to my idea that if it is public land, the people partying are drunk in public, and the Sheriff can arrest them for it. Doesn't matter much for us fisherman, he's cool with us because he knows we aren't a problem.

The fact he also saw me picking up trash off "his land" as I was taking out couldn't have hurt, either.

It's not against the law to be intoxicated in public in the state of Missouri. There is a specific Missouri Constitutional Provision forbidding the state or any subdivision from passing such a law. Odd little state we have here, the passengers can also drink beer in the car in MOST (not all some cities have open container laws) places.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I had a talk with a landowner east of here who owns land around Johns Ford this past weekend, and all of his problems with drunks hanging around there at night. He says he has the right to keep people off his land, which he thinks includes the river bottom itself- because he owns land on each side of the river. I told him, nope, you don't own that, it's public land.

If you are speaking of the land beyond the public road right of way, which is usually somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 ft. from the center line of the road, giver or take a few feet depending on local situations, he does own the land. The public has a right, according to the Missouri Supreme Court to use his land along the creek for activities associated with the creek.

Could drinking be considered activites associated with the creek? If they were to claim they were picnicking or camping, then it would appear that they are within their legal right to be there. But once the first can, bottle or cigarette butt falls...game over! I am no way on the partiers side as they are the one's that I point my finger at for ruining for the rest of us that want to use this resource as it should be. Not to mention the varmits that will grab a case of beer, fill the tank with gas and drive around half the night to dump trash. When it would have been cheaper to go to the land fill or even find a dumpster.

[RSBreth]

Wow, thanks for the heads up on both of those, but obviously, I am not a lawyer. Is there a statute about being "a bleephole in public"? I see TONS of violations of that, every day.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I am not a lawyer either. I just do a lot of research to learn my rights and post my findings here to help others that enjoy this outdoor activity.

Be sure to read post #8 to this thread. There is valuable info in there. That came from the DNR site.

I do need to fix that link though.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Well, I finally repaired the link. Sorry I took so long.

If you like to spend time in the outdoors as much as I do, it is worth a little bit of your time to read.

[smallmouthjoe]

If you are speaking of the land beyond the public road right of way, which is usually somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 ft. from the center line of the road, giver or take a few feet depending on local situations, he does own the land. The public has a right, according to the Missouri Supreme Court to use his land along the creek for activities associated with the creek.

Hey Chief, does this apply to all county roads? I had a really bad incident on The James yesterday. I thought I was accessing the river legally by parking on a road and walking along it until I walked to a bridge and then walked under it. I knew there was I buffer that was for public use, but the landowner didn't seem to agree with me. He yelled at me and assaulted me with a pen that he wrote down my license plate number down with. Does he own the land under the bridge?

[Chief Grey Bear]

No he does not. You will see though that ranchers will fence off this area and use it to let cattle go from one field to the other. It is much easier and safer for them to do this then to shut down the road temporarily to move the cattle.

I don't know the procedure for this but, I am assuming they are getting permission from the county or state depending on who maintains the road.

It is from my understanding of the law, that you were completely within your legal right to do what you did. Next time ask him to produce the deed that says he owns that piece of land.

[smallmouthjoe]

Man, I was worried about him producing a pistol and shooting me. I know that he was in the wrong, first by even bothering me, second by being so hostile towards me. The funny thing is right as I drove up to the bridge I saw a conservation agent and asked him if I could park and fish. He said I should go ask the house that was down the way and if they weren't home I could park on the road and walk under the bridge. I wish I would have gotten his name it could be useful if this landowner decides to take me to court.