Kentucky Spotted Bass

[creek wader]

I started a post under "other Ozark streams". My intention of the original post was to state that I would stop spilling my guts and divulging the access locations, of the streams that I fished. I didn't want to bring undue fishing pressure on these streams, for the sake of others that fished them. I think we have got that worked out.

Anyway, because I posted a pic of a "spot". The post turned into a spotted bass discussion. Seems everyone has an opinion of these very adaptable, resilient, hard fighting , usually small, bass. The point of original post wasn't intended to be on "spots". So, I thought I'd take it upon myself to move the discussion to a new post.

So, if anyone would like to chime in on the age old spotted bass controversy, this would be a good place to do it. Maybe all to be said has been said. But, I doubt it.

Thanks ... wader

[eric1978]

I posted a fishing report on the upper-middle Bourbeuse yesterday. In it I reported that my buddy and I caught more spots than smallmouth and largemouth combined. And that was up pretty high. I think they are a MAJOR problem on the Bourbeuse and a SMA should be enforced. I only caught about 10 smallmouth in about 8 miles of river, only one of which was quality, a little over 17 inches. Giggers don't help, but I think the spots are the main problem. Too bad we can't inject anti-spot juice into the streams.

[creek wader]

I posted a fishing report on the upper-middle Bourbeuse yesterday. In it I reported that my buddy and I caught more spots than smallmouth and largemouth combined. And that was up pretty high. I think they are a MAJOR problem on the Bourbeuse and a SMA should be enforced. I only caught about 10 smallmouth in about 8 miles of river, only one of which was quality, a little over 17 inches. Giggers don't help, but I think the spots are the main problem. Too bad we can't inject anti-spot juice into the streams.

As I stated in the other post. ... If the MDC would do away with the minimum length limit on spots in the Osage and it's trib's. (where I usually fish). .. Then I would keep them and fry em up. But, I usually don't catch very many keeper spots, ( 12>). So, I not going to drag one 12> spot around with me for hrs., while wade fishing. Do away with the length and possession limit on the spots on all Ozark streams, and the meat eaters might be able to keep the population in check. I think it's too late to reduce the population.

But, this would open a can of worms. Because those that can't identify a spot or those that don't care, will be keeping all bass. I'm sure there would be some abuse. because there already is, with the current regs. in place. ... wader

[eric1978]

But, this would open a can of worms. Because those that can't identify a spot or those that don't care, will be keeping all bass. I'm sure there would be some abuse. because there already is, with the current regs. in place. ... wader

They removed the length limit on the Meramec and its tribs, but I don't think it's enough. You're right, the meaters don't care. That's why I think every stream with non-native spots need to be made SMAs. The spots do enough to decrease smallmouth populations; we don't need to be harvesting the few that make it. By removing the limits on the spots, there may be some illegal largemouth taken on accident by those who can't identify the difference, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to identify a smallmouth. They're just too distinct to be mistaken.

To me, smallmouth in the Meramec system need to be considered an endangered species, because that's what they are: in danger. But because smallmouth are abundant and flourish elsewhere, it doesn't seem to be of much concern to those who make the rules. They don't want to upset people by "making laws," which always causes backlash simply because some people have this irrational fear of "government tellin' me what I can do." I don't really see how anyone could get that upset if MDC said, "you can have all the spots you want, and a few largemouth according to the established limits, but release all the smallmouth." Smallmouth are far more precious to those interested in catching them than to those interested in eating them. You'd be hard-pressed to find a forum on the internet based on how tasty smallmouth are and the best ways to cook them. The smaller bass taste better anyway, and if the spots are nothing else, they're definitely small.

I truly believe that the creel laws are generally set not according to what's best ecologically, but rather by the imaginary parameters of what the biologists feel they can get away with without ruffling the "anti-government feathers." Not all laws are bad. The law that says you can't go stealing someone else's car isn't very convenient for car thieves, but it works pretty well for the rest of us. A law establishing the protection of a beloved species will of course anger a few, but the negative reaction would pale in comparison to those who appreciate it. On top of that it would be better for the dang-gum ecosystem anyway. Duh! I'm gonna go calm down.

[Wayne SW/MO]

I don't think the problem is with the Kentucky's, they are native, but with their location in a lot of streams. They're crowding out the Smallies and cross breeding with them. Neither they nor largemouth can hold a candle to a native Smallie when it comes to a hardfight, even if they could grow to the same size, which they don't.

[eric1978]

I don't think the problem is with the Kentucky's, they are native, but with their location in a lot of streams. They're crowding out the Smallies and cross breeding with them. Neither they nor largemouth can hold a candle to a native Smallie when it comes to a hardfight, even if they could grow to the same size, which they don't.

They're not native in the Meramec River system.

[ozark trout fisher]

I believe spotted bass should be protected in their native range. But the simple fact is they are not native to the Meramec, Bourbeuse, or Big Rivers. And they are decimating native smallies in these streams. I don't believe it is a coincidence that at almost exactly the same time spotted bass showed up on the seen, smallies began declining. I don't want to lose the Meramec basin to 10" non-native spotted bass. I say do anything to protect the smallies.

Here's what I would change the regs to.... Throughout the Meramec and lower Gasconade basin, catch and release only for native black bass (smallmouth and largemouth), and catch and keep only for non-native bass (kentuckies). Also, any and all spotted bass electro-shocked would be taken out. This may not fix the problem, but it would certainly help. I think we're too far along the line to entirely fix the problem.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Brownies aren't native to those waterways either. Or so I have read.

[eric1978]

Brownies aren't native to those waterways either. Or so I have read.

Where have you read that? I was always under the assumption they were native.

[Chief Grey Bear]

From the only source you seem to deem credible. There are other souces that state the same but you will have to research them yourself.

Post #3

Shovelnose Sturgeon

Group: OAF Fishing Contributor

Posts: 852

Joined: 20-December 05

Member No.: 218

From what I've been able to gather, the genetics of Ozark smallmouths are pretty confused. There was so much milk can stocking in the early 1900s that there are probably no pure strains of Neoshos left. The various river systems may have all had slightly different strains originally. If you look at the connections between river systems, you can see why this might be so. The Neoshos were native to rivers flowing into the Arkansas River, and rivers like the Mulberry and Big Piney in Arkansas may have had Neosho strain fish originally. And since the White River flows into the Arkansas or thereabouts where both come into the Mississippi, chances are the White River fish (including Current, Black, and Eleven Point) may have had fish similar to the Neoshos originally. I remember reading a genetic study somewhere that said that the fish in the streams flowing directly into the Mississippi in MO (the Meramec river system and smaller streams like Saline Creek) were a little different genetically from the fish in the rest of the Ozarks. And it's just possible that smallies were not even native to the rivers in MO that flow into the Missouri River, like the Gasconade and Osage river systems (including the Niangua and Pomme De Terre). It's been pretty well known that rock bass were not native to these streams.

As an artist, I've noticed that smallmouths on the Buffalo in AR look a little different than the Meramec River system smallies I'm used to catching. Maybe slightly different genetics?

The original native range of smallies was the Ohio and Tennessee river systems, the upper Mississippi river system, and the rivers flowing into the Great Lakes. The Ozarks was somewhat separate from all these areas. And there are differences between Great Lakes type fish and Tennessee/Ohio river system fish in general body shape. The Great Lakes type fish and the upper Mississippi fish are blockier and deeper through the body than Tennessee/Ohio fish, which tend to be pretty slender if they are river fish, and football shaped if they are reservoir fish. The Ozark fish in general look like Tennessee river fish rather than upper Mississippi fish, but they are a different strain with less potential to get really large. That's the reason why the top size of Ozark reservoir smallmouths seems to be about 7 pounds while fish in some of the Tennessee and Kentucky reservoirs, in the same latitude and with a similar growing season, have produced lots of fish bigger than that, including the world record. Since Neosho strain fish don't get very big, could it be that smallies all over the Ozarks are "contaminated" with Neosho genes?