I'm Really, Really Sick Of This...

[awhuber]

Dang Sam, sounds kinda Orwellian to me.

I can see it happening though... and this 9-pager is the recipe:

Add 1 part bad-apple, then add 3 parts of anecdotal fiction. Throw in a cup of "never tried it", a tablespoon of "unknown", and "assume" to taste.

Don't stir. It needs to be stirred, but just assume you can't.

Allow the concoction to bask in the self-righteous glow of knowing yours is truly sporting. Apply liberally to all competing sportsmen. You'll know it's done when your preferred fishing method is the sole remaining legal means.

LOL well said...

[jdmidwest]

I am wondering if the Heron is eliminating competition for the food source he utilizes when he stabs the Bass and kills it. They both eat the same thing. Kind of like Wolves and Coyotes.

I guess you could look at it that way but I have seen them try to eat the fish they kill. They can't of course, so they leave them lay. I don't think the heron can reason to the point where he could eliminate the competitors.

[troutfiend1985]

Allow the concoction to bask in the self-righteous glow of knowing yours is truly sporting. Apply liberally to all competing sportsmen. You'll know it's done when your preferred fishing method is the sole remaining legal means.

I don't think that restricting gigging is the formula to one type of fishing only. Whatever California does has no bearing on this conversation. Yes, in the future Missouri might adopt similar restrictions, but I seriously doubt the policy decision will be because there is a superior way of fishing and that we should support that method at the expense of another way, or that California does this so we should too. I haven't seen anyone blast using live bait, powerbait or spin fishing or claiming that fly fishing is superior or say that "real fishing"= xyz. And if they did then they are speaking on a subject with meritless arguments. I think, and this is only from my observation of the discussion, that the real issue at heart is protecting sport fish from poaching.

I guess that when it really comes down to it, I don't see anything that will be done about this problem in the near future. Sure, call the hotline when you witness the act or the evidence of the act. But, is this forum and the people who are concerned with this problem going to actively do anything? Or is this a forum where we drink coffee and discuss a bunch of hypothetical solutions without taking the issue to the next step? By the next step, I mean a local representative or the MDC. So my bottom line question is; what is this forum really about and where is it going?

[Chief Grey Bear]

Chief, let me turn the tables a bit, what is your suggestion in regards to education? What more can MDC, or a conservation group do in order to reduce this problem?

Sorry I am late. I am having computer issues and haven't been here in a couple of days.

If I were in charge of the MSA I would be all over the problems that are being discussed here and in the other thread. How? Just like I suggested to Matt. Get your troops(members) active. It is time for either a emergency meeting or get this addressed and get ideas rolling in the next monthly meeting.

I personally like the idea of getting at least 20 members active enough to be interested in donating one Saturday a month to the cause. Just as I suggested before. And lets say we have done just that. Now I think we need to schedule meetings at different towns along the waterways that we consider to be a problem. By having groups of 5 members, or for meetings we could even do two member teams and thus do, say, two meetings per weekend in different areas.

Now in these meetins I would try to establish the importance of why the regulations are the way they are and how they can benifit all. Don't make it a bully session. Make it a learning session for all. Ask to the local MDC to attend with you and provide additional stats and info.

This is only one idea. If we would put all of heads together we could hatch more. And that seems like a better use of time then continually wasting time saying why things cant' be done.

Yep, "education" is one of those throw-away terms that sounds good in theory, but I don't see it solving this problem.

Throw it away if you want Al but, what good will it do to add more laws and restrictions on those that are breaking the law and restrictions now?

I suspect this has more to do with increasing the problem than anything else. I can't think of any sport were the advantages between hunter and prey has been closed so tight.

Before jumping all over giggers and their fancy lights, lets not forget the major advancments in electronics in these fancy bass boats buzzing up and down the lake at God knows what speed.

[Gary Lange]

Before jumping all over giggers and their fancy lights, lets not forget the major advancements in electronics in these fancy bass boats buzzing up and down the lake at God knows what speed.

The advance that electronics have made over the years has in no way given the average angler any real advantage over catching Bass in the same way that the more powerful lights and the giggers hand have. Fancy Bass Boats don't catch the fish they are just another of the tools good fisherman utilize in the pursuit of there sport.

[Chief Grey Bear]

The advance that electronics have made over the years has in no way given the average angler any real advantage over catching Bass in the same way that the more powerful lights and the giggers hand have.

That is friggin hilarious right there!!!!

[drew03cmc]

Before jumping all over giggers and their fancy lights, lets not forget the major advancements in electronics in these fancy bass boats buzzing up and down the lake at God knows what speed.

The advance that electronics have made over the years has in no way given the average angler any real advantage over catching Bass in the same way that the more powerful lights and the giggers hand have. Fancy Bass Boats don't catch the fish they are just another of the tools good fisherman utilize in the pursuit of there sport.

If you believe this, you are either naive or have never used these electronics. The electronics help you narrow down where the fish are at, what depth they are at, cover, structure, etc. They eliminate probing unproductive water, which blind fishing requires.

[RSBreth]

Yeah, I'm sorry to pile on here too, but that was a silly statement about modern electronics on "fancy Bass boats".

The idea of modern gigging have a parallel in modern Bass fishing isn't a good comparison. I think modern spotlighting of Deer is about the same thing - just the gigging is legal.

I just came back from paddling around my little local pond, the Ozark Park section of the Finley River. Right at the boat ramp is a mess of cleaned suckers - about 13-14 total. Hard to tell as the filleted remains were thrown in a pile right there by the ramp in about 4-foot of water. Classy. Right where all the town folk park to walk around the park, or throw rocks in the water with their kids.

I paddled upstream and was looking for Bass that had been gigged ( or maybe the three billed Herons got them?) and amazingly, unlike last time, I didn't see one dead Bass. But I did see in my short trip 6 dead suckers lying on the bottom in various spots upstream. I didn't fish long, just a couple of hours, so I didn't paddling the entire length of where a gig boat could have gone. maybe there were more fish gigged and lost, or not, I don't know. That's almost a 50% loss rate, pretty bad. I wonder if "missed" fish are in the equation MDC uses for the limits of the non-game fish. Or do they care?

[troutfiend1985]

Now in these meetins I would try to establish the importance of why the regulations are the way they are and how they can benifit all. Don't make it a bully session. Make it a learning session for all. Ask to the local MDC to attend with you and provide additional stats and info.

I like this idea, and I hope that I never came off as someone dismissing education totally, I just wanted to hear something more than education is the answer. My only concern with the idea of traditional education is that the majority of the people, if not all of the people, who come to these meetings will not be the ones who are causing the problems. That is not a shot at the idea of education, I just think that it might be the unfortunate truth. However, if the meetings can get enough people to listen the power of peer pressure might work, or the power of reporting.

The bass boats v. gigging lights thing needs to stop, it doesn't really influence the problem in one way or the other. Yes, bass boats and the fish finders have improved and I'm sure that the gigging equipment has improved as well, so lets move on.

I think in order to give these meetings credibility, that giggers need to be there. And if you could actually get those who the community suspects practices illegal tactics, all the better. I would hope that if someone is setting up this meeting, that the central focus of the meeting is conservation and responsible practices. This would go for fishing as well as gigging.

In order to address the situation that seems to be the crux of this problem the people who are causing the problems will need to get the message, again applying the same treatment to gigging as well as fishing. This is where I expect the mud to kick up. Their needs to be an incentive for people to show up, both conservationist and poacher alike. Maybe a local expert in gigging, you know the whole carrot before the stick. While the expert, and again this is only an idea, is talking about effective techniques, he could also speak on the importance of conservation. Just throwing a dart at the wall in the hopes that it might stick.

If, however, the people who are causing the problems are not present at the meetings, the use of education will not overcome the problems of poaching.

[fishgypsy]

If you believe this, you are either naive or have never used these electronics. The electronics help you narrow down where the fish are at, what depth they are at, cover, structure, etc. They eliminate probing unproductive water, which blind fishing requires.

I can only speak from personal experience, but I've never caught 300 of anything in an hour and a half, even with high-end gear and electronics. Gigging is an awfully efficient way of harvesting fish.