Orvis-Orvis Rig Vs Sage-Ross Rig

[OKFlyFisher44]

Love my Vexsis and my Evolution! Ross reels pretty much rule...

[billynwtf]

Stay away from Orvis and go with the Sage. I have eight Ross Reels I love them.

[jdmidwest]

I really don't know what the aversion is towards the Orvis Company is on here. I have had an association with them since the early 90's when the shop I worked for was an Orvis Dealer. I have been a member of the Orvis Guide Program ever since and still have friends that are dealers. I do a tying class for one of them from time to time. They have always had excellent products and excellent customer service. If you have a problem, they will go to the extreme to make it better.

Is a product issue or a dealership issue?

As far as the rod goes, I would go with the Orvis rod over the Sage based on my experience. I currently own over 10 of them in various sizes and designs, from the low end to the high end. I have fished and sold twice that amount over the years for various reasons. I have not bought a Helios yet but have not heard anything bad about them. Friends have been buying the Streamline series and have no complaints. I currently fish the Trout Bum 4 pc 5 wt for the most part and love it. Orvis has been making rods longer than anyone and they fish great, designed well, and come with a 25 year no questions asked warranty. Orvis makes quality reels like the CFO and Battenkill Bar Stock, but it is hard to beat the craftmanship of a Ross Reel.

[vanven]

Is a product issue or a dealership issue?

From my perspective it is a little bit of both. From the product perspective, there is generally nothing wrong with any of the Orvis gear I have ever tried or bought. The issue is that at every price point there is a company that makes gear that is significantly better. A Konic is a significantly better reel than a Battenkill at the same price, both in design, quality, and engineering. A Z-Axis is a better rod than a Helios in almost every comparison you read. Their fly line does not compare to the SA and Rio offerings. Again, it is not that Orvis is selling shoddy equipment, but it is relatively easy to find "better" equipment in every case.

There was a point in time where Orvis was considered to be a leader in many categories of fly fishing gear. In most of those areas they have been surpassed. Couple this conmon perception that Orvis gear is average with a fly shop that is affiliated with Orvis. Of course fly shops are going to affiliate themselves with a dealer, it makes sense. You now have a fly shop pushing you to purchase Orvis gear either outright, or through their product inventory. You end up with fisherman like myself who made significant purchases of gear based on the fly shop's jaded recommendation only to be second guessing themselves when the gear fails to meet expectations.

This is my opinion. We all have different expectations of the equipment we purchase. I do the research, i read everything I can get my hands on before making a major equipment purchase. I like to believe that I make informed decisions when looking at a rod/reel/line combo that could easily push $1000. In no case have I ever seen Orvis among the recommended choices beyond those of an affiliated dealer.

Fly rods need to be fit much like a set of golf clubs. We all cast differently and certain rods may fit everyone differently. I have poor opinions about Orvis rods based on my cast mechanics. Someone else may swear by them. If I find that a Scott rod casts better than my Sage I may change my personal rod of choice.

Someone posted on this sight something along the lines of "This is not the Orvis that your grandfather and dad knew". I tend to believe that statement.

-Jerod

[jdmidwest]

From my perspective it is a little bit of both. From the product perspective, there is generally nothing wrong with any of the Orvis gear I have ever tried or bought. The issue is that at every price point there is a company that makes gear that is significantly better. A Konic is a significantly better reel than a Battenkill at the same price, both in design, quality, and engineering. A Z-Axis is a better rod than a Helios in almost every comparison you read. Their fly line does not compare to the SA and Rio offerings. Again, it is not that Orvis is selling shoddy equipment, but it is relatively easy to find "better" equipment in every case.

There was a point in time where Orvis was considered to be a leader in many categories of fly fishing gear. In most of those areas they have been surpassed. Couple this conmon perception that Orvis gear is average with a fly shop that is affiliated with Orvis. Of course fly shops are going to affiliate themselves with a dealer, it makes sense. You now have a fly shop pushing you to purchase Orvis gear either outright, or through their product inventory. You end up with fisherman like myself who made significant purchases of gear based on the fly shop's jaded recommendation only to be second guessing themselves when the gear fails to meet expectations.

This is my opinion. We all have different expectations of the equipment we purchase. I do the research, i read everything I can get my hands on before making a major equipment purchase. I like to believe that I make informed decisions when looking at a rod/reel/line combo that could easily push $1000. In no case have I ever seen Orvis among the recommended choices beyond those of an affiliated dealer.

Fly rods need to be fit much like a set of golf clubs. We all cast differently and certain rods may fit everyone differently. I have poor opinions about Orvis rods based on my cast mechanics. Someone else may swear by them. If I find that a Scott rod casts better than my Sage I may change my personal rod of choice.

Someone posted on this sight something along the lines of "This is not the Orvis that your grandfather and dad knew". I tend to believe that statement.

-Jerod

I can agree with some of your observations. Orvis produces all of their rod blanks, it is entirely their own product, not outsourced. Probably the only thing they have ever done completely inhouse. Some of their low end rods are assembled elsewhere now, but they still stand behind them. The quality suffers in order to compete with their competitors.

All the rest is usually made by another supplier and branded with their own name. I think the fly lines were made by SA at one time. Most materials are supplied by companies like Wapsi in bulk and branded with their own label. Waders are made by ? now. Reels were made by Hardy in England and branded Orvis. Now, probably made in China.

Back to their rods, their most popular rods tend to be faster action graphite with fast action tips. Their Superfine medium action rods fit my casting style for the most part here in MO. I don't like the fast action rods, or what they call Tip Flex. You have to read their charts for the action types to get the right action for your casting style. You really need to cast a rod to see if it fits you and I think they give you a 30 day trial period to exchange. Most dealers have rods to try in shop.

To sum it up, there are other great companies out there. But, I have never had a issue with any product I have purchased from the Orvis Co. that they did not resolve ASAP and usually to my best interest. I have broken rods by chinking the rod with a fly or lead and caused a failure, the rod was replaced each time with a upgraded rod. I have slammed one in a car door and broke a tip, they replaced the rod. Not many companies do that.

[vanven]

I know we are sort of stealing this thread but I like the discussion. I love the gear aspect of fly fishing. I would do it for a living given the opportunity. I am also hard on my equipment. It will get dunked, it will get fish slimed, it will get dirty, and it will get bumped around occasionally.

I have relatively limited experience with Orvis. I own a Battenkill mid arbor reel, a 9' 5wt TLS tip flex rod, and a pair of waders for my wife.

The reel was a bust. I dont really have any complaints about the quality. It is the design that i despise. The drag is sub par and the inner workings of the reel are exposed leaving them very subject to water and sand. The reel is unfishable because I dont know when the spool is going to lock up. I have lost a couple of nice fish because the spool locked from a minute piece of sand or gravel. When you compare that to the sealed drag systems that companies like Lampson offer it is very frustrating. If i took the time to clean and oil the reel religiously my opinion might be different. I spend 10-30 days on the water a year, I dont think I should have to babysit equipment for that short of a time investment. It should work well out of the box every time for years.

The rod is a store/dealer issue. I believe I paid about $300 for the rod. I had to buy it in a pinch when i decided that I loved fly fishing and happened to break my Cabelas combo in a car door. I dropped $450 on the battenkill/TLS combo. I didnt have time to do the research and was new to the sport. I was pushed to purchase Orvis by a fly shop affiliated with them. Due to the inventory of the store I did not have an opportunity to explore rods like TFO, Sage Launch, etc... The rod is a tip flex, it casts like a broomstick with a twig on the end. It may be perfect for a more technical caster, but for me it was a horrible fit. I have no issues with the quality of this rod at all in fact I would like to find it a good home where it will be used. It just isnt friendly or forgiving to cast for me.

-Jerod

[Greg]

Regarding Orvis stuff: I'm a gear junkie but I've never owned an orvis fly rod. But I do own a couple of Orvis fly reels. One is the original Orvis battenkill disc 5/6. It wasn't expensive but I really like it and use it more than any other reel I own. I like it better than my 2 Ross reels.

Greg