White River Before The Dams

[tjulianc]

Every man who has ever floated down a river knows what they are worth. Who hasn't felt a unique emotion on a river? Are our lives so valueless that we can give up something that actually means something to us for a few bucks?

If you support the dams that are here, then logically you should support more dams. That scares me.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I think that perhaps we need to stop looking for the next big source of electricity that we can just plug into the power grid and then dump all the old technology. We need to start considering a smaller scale grid. Have each city, or each town, or each industrial plant, or even each home, be responsible for their own electricity, with the existing large scale power grids tied in to furnish back-up power only.

I have been thinking the same thing for a few years now. There are options that should explored especially, I think, by smaller towns. I have thought of a couple of different options that I think would be viable.

[ozark trout fisher]

Huh? The landowners got paid, and in an area that didn't have much of an economy they were glad to get it.

The lakes aren't going anywhere, not those like TR because the economic losses would cause something of a revolt. When they were built they were viewed as a great advantage to the areas, and that really hasn't changed. Fortunately there will probably be no more.

Those of us who place more value on the natural world than the dollar sign are not going to lay down any time soon.

No amount of money can replace a broken river system. The economic benefits of a dammed river system are an entirely moot point if you ask me. It can never be worth it.

I think of the rivers I fish, the beautiful, natural ecosystems that they encompass. I could not be paid enough money to give a single one of them up.

[Justin Spencer]

Something that just occurred to me due to the size of the White it would be a much different experience today even if it still was free flowing. Technology would have still developed resulting in scores of jetboats using this river as it would be one of the few big rivers where powerboaters could recreate. I would bet most of us would still be wade fishing, canoeing and kayaking the same rivers we do today because these are the intimate, sporty, scenic rivers we prefer. While the White was an impressive river, I don't think it could have matched the beauty of the smaller free flowing rivers we still have. When we get good rains I still prefer floating many of the seasonal creeks that normally can't be floated. The White would have been primarily a fishing (not floating) river and with today's population (and lack of reservoirs to fish in) I would assume it would be a mess of drunk rednecks (myself included) zooming all over the place shooting guns, gigging fish, and treating every big gravel bar like party cove.

[creekin bassnerd]

Don't worry about the birds, they will be here long after were all gone.

As Al stated, these areas would have been better off with lower populations. Why not leave these areas the way they were before us? If you love them so much you want to live there, then move there and be a mountain man. Wouldnt be all bad, you can be a hunter/gatherer, farmer, fisherman, and live a nice peaceful life. Don't darn up the pulse of these hills, stock and restock and restock... trout that are dumb as rocks, and build your cities here.

The rivers/streams are here for us to enjoy. We do not own them, the native americans that were here before us didnt feel they owned them and they treated the land and rivers with great respect. They left it all preserved for us so we can do what the hell we want with it. Such an easy concept is respect, but for some reason it is the hardest to soak in. Why? I dont know, for some reason we think we have the right to do whatever we want to do to whatever we want to do it to, regardless of the sufferers. Too many greedy *******s, not enough peaceful people, that are thankful for the natural beauty around them.

Also, I have to disagree about the Whites current use if it was still free flowing. I don't think as many drunk rednecks would make it down the white. Seems to me that drunk rednecks do what is easy for them to accomplish in their drunken state. Which means not drive too far away to float a river that they dont live next to.

The dams never put in place, the forced tourism and cities that nestle around these reservoirs stay sleep little towns, populations stay low with residents mainly just people who were born and raised in these hills and refuse to leave. Now we have a framework for recreation. Too far away for people who dont truly care about the rivers and just close enough to find a little peace when lookin for it.

Beavers are referred to as nuisance animals for the way they darn up creeks and cause flooding of land. People who act like beavers should be called worse, hmmm maybe disrespectful pieces of ****!

[Justin Spencer]

Which means not drive too far away to float a river that they dont live next to

You evidently don't know much about the tourism industry. It is surprising to me the number of people who travel long distances to have a fun quick weekend and then drive home. Our summer business is probably 75% Kansas City which is 5-6 hours away from here. People are searching for some sort of outdoor experience and will travel a long way to get it, if only for a short time. It is naive to think that a treasure like the White would stay pristine and only be used by those who live around it. I'm not defending the dams but just looking at things realistically if they weren't there. It is more fun to look at it through rose colored glasses but unrealistic I'm afraid.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Those of us who place more value on the natural world than the dollar sign are not going to lay down any time soon.

Is that what you thought in the 40's, living in Thodosia, or Forsyth, maybe Galena?

[creekin bassnerd]

I believe that the people who do travel from far away seeking an outdoor experience are probably not the "drunk rednecks" that we speak of. If you drive all the way from Kansas city for an outdoor experience, you probably aren't the destructive type. No trace left behind type folks. I would think anyway. On the other hand, Im looking toward the people who live close enough to casually drive over to the white and dung all over the place. People who dont care, they have access, booze, guns, fourwheelers, and an ecologically dangerous attitude.

When youre floating down a river and you see something shiny on the bottom, you know instantly its a beer can. You also know instantly it was a dumbass that sank it. Its usually a bud light can.

[Justin Spencer]

I don't neccesarily think that it would be all "drunk rednecks" on the river, and you are right the worst of them are locals. But most I see who travel from far away are looking for an outdoor experience usually with alcohol. Think of all the powerboaters/bass fishermen who would have to fish on the rivers and I just see a busy river with boats up and down it all the time. Where do you think most of the fishermen were coming from that used Owen's outfitters, they were not the poor locals they were well to do city folk who travelled shitty roads for hours to come get away from it all for a week or so. If there is no Lake of the Ozarks no Truman, Beaver, Taney, Table Rock, Norfork, Bull Shoals, etc. where do you think these people are now, on the White, the Current, Eleven Point, in numbers that would make the current summer weekends seem like a late September Royals game. The landscape would be as nature intended, but the quality of the experience would not be as it was in the early 20th century due simply to a lot more people in the world.

[ozark trout fisher]

Is that what you thought in the 40's, living in Thodosia, or Forsyth, maybe Galena?

My opinions on this are solid, and are not changed by circumstances. I know that I treasure the ecosystem on a free flowing, healthy river above just about anything else, and I just wouldn't ever give that up for any amount of money.

Let me use an example. I am originally from a pretty poor area in Colorado. It is not the tourist trap type place you'd find in some areas of the Rocky Mountains- but the country is beautiful as the day is long with mountains, foothills, high desert, clear, cold rivers and the whole bit. There are mountains that could be famous ski slopes, streams that could be transformed into money-making and power producing reservoirs, but instead it is a quiet area, economically troubled, but still beautiful and perfect the way it is.

Could this area be transformed into a tourist trap like Steamboat Springs, Aspen, or, to use a local version, Branson? Probably it could, and it would be great for the economy. But although some want exactly that, I didn't then and do not now believe that it would be anything other than a tragedy if the area lost its natural, authentic character. Truly unique places are few and far between now, mostly because people want to "develop" those areas economically.

Rant over. I'm leaving for deer camp way down in the Ozarks and won't be back for three days.