Overfishing Ends In Us Marine Fisheries

[Outside Bend]

Justin, Are you justifying poaching by those who are poor? If I believe the wild deer population in your area is a resource of the greater society and that society has set hunting seasons and limits to protect that resource, then how can I look at poaching outside of those parameters as anything but a wrong committed against that greater society? Would it be just as acceptable to allow the poor in your neighborhood to help themselves to venison or other food staples from your freezer? We absolutely should help those in our society that need help surviving, but it is necessary that we do it within the parameters set by our laws. I'm glad to see you have a caring heart.

steve

You've got it backwards- imagine a guy who makes $500,000 a year raiding your pantry, and you'll have an idea of what's going on in many of these third world fisheries.

[Justin Spencer]

Justin, Are you justifying poaching by those who are poor?

yep, if they are doing it to feed themselves or family. Beats them robbing grocery stores! I think seasons and limits are set in different areas with estimates of poaching in mind. We have tons of deer in our area, but no antlerless season. Could this be due to the fact the state knows we have lots of poor folks who take deer if they need them out of season?

[Steve_IA]

You've got it backwards- imagine a guy who makes $500,000 a year raiding your pantry, and you'll have an idea of what's going on in many of these third world fisheries.

I appologize for not expressing my concerns more clearly. I find no justification in either.

Justin... I fear the line that you would cross today may not end where you would have it tommorrow.

steve

[Justin Spencer]

I'm just telling what goes on in my area, and has been for generations and still have plenty of deer, I don't think the problem is increasing. Steve, if you had the choice between not having enough for you and your family to eat and violating a game law, you would choose to go hungry?

The level of poverty in the rural ozarks is something many people cannot understand. You might not know it talking to these people, but some of these folks don't have a single dollar to their name until they get paid for an odd job here or there, or take a load of junk to the salvage yard. They don't have credit cards to get them through, they grow and can their own vegatables raise their own livestock, and are generally honest people.

I for one respect this type of living much more than the guy living in a house that's much too big, driving a car that's much too expensive and taking lavish vacations he can't afford. Society thinks much more highly of this person because they can't see the debt he has until he files for chapter 11, or gets bailed out by family or friends. Few of these rural ozarkians are upside down on their mortgages, and while some do accept goverment assistance (can't blame them if it's available) their drain on society is minimal. If them shooting a deer or two out of season keeps food on the table, and game stays plentiful, more power to them.

[Al Agnew]

The problem I see with looking the other way when people poach game, no matter what the reason, is in where do you draw the line? Living in a rural Ozark area myself, I realize there are people who poach to feed themselves, but there are just as many people who poach simply because they don't like the government telling them what to do, or as only one part of a pattern of law-breaking that includes meth, breaking and entering, etc. Poaching deer is breaking the law, and there shouldn't be a distinction just because it's a game law. In reality there is little difference between poaching a deer to feed yourself and shoplifting a ham to feed yourself. You think the grocery store owner is going to look the other way while you walk out with the ham? The public is the "store owner" in the case of the deer.

Maybe, instead of condoning and encouraging law breaking by looking the other way, we oughta give out subsistence permits if there are that many people who need that out of season deer to survive. But I think that ignoring ANY law sets a dangerous precedent.

However, having said all that, this could turn out to be similar to the newest mountain lion thread...if one of these impoverished people WAS actually arrested for shooting a deer to feed his family, there might be a very good chance that a jury wouldn't convict him. It goes against my grain, but I can see the realities as well (part of my pragmatic conserberal outlook).

[Justin Spencer]

To clarify the situation in my area, while people do shoot deer out of season for food, the vast majority (who rely on this meat) are surprisingly respectful of the seasons, and usually use the proper seasons to stock up. Probably a bigger problem than poaching is the filling of other people's tags. Between rifle and bow season with landowner tags I can kill (without looking) 5-6 deer I believe. I think my wife could do the same if she were to get her tags, and not sure how kids factor in. Plenty of people fill the tags of someone else, and with tele-check I would say it is easier than ever. Once again I think the MDC chooses not to look too hard at a deer violation unless it was reported, or was a blatent waste of something like a big buck that was found without a head. In areas with small deer populations I would guess they enforce the laws a little harder than areas with overabundant populations.

To my knowledge all the robo deer are bucks (is that an accurate statement?)

[Al Agnew]

Yeah, filling other people's tags is probably the most common violation all over the Ozarks and elsewhere. And I can understand the mentality behind it...if you look upon the deer as a commodity, and your FAMILY has the "right" to take X number of deer in total, what does it matter who actually does the shooting?

It's still illegal...but at least SOMEBODY is paying for the privilege of eating that deer, unlike the out of season, no tags poacher who is getting the deer for "free". It's not quite so much like shoplifting the ham.

[ozark trout fisher]

The idea of shooting a deer out of season to feed your family is a tough one... On one hand, I am of the tendency to say to heck with all poachers of all varieties, but when it's entirely necessary for a poor person to feed their family-it's just hard for me to think he should get the same penalty for poaching as a guy who was just doing it for fun.

If I was desperately poor, and had a family to feed, and the only way I was gonna do it was to kill a deer out of season, hell, I don't know what I'd do. I'm just glad I've never been in that position and don't foresee it happening.

[Justin Spencer]

It's still illegal...but at least SOMEBODY is paying for the privilege of eating that deer

Most of the tags filled by others are probably free landowner tags (i guess we pay with our property taxes), can't imagine many go buy a tag just to give it away.