Missouri Prop 2

[Kicknbass]

Embryonic stem cell research is, at present, permitted in Missouri, but the reason for the initiative is that the MO Legislature has repeatedly and will continue to repeatedly attempt to ban it, since there is at present no law that affirms that it can take place.

If the legislature can ban it, they can restore the ability to permit the research in the future if and when the political arena changes and the science is determined to be vital.

I don't believe this is a constitutional issue. We elect representation to make and enforce law. If you don't want the present situation to change, elect representatives that support your position.

[Phil Lilley]

The amendment -

http://www.nocloning.org/amendment.pdf

[Kicknbass]

Another reason to vote down this constitutional change, is that paragraph 2 of the first page takes the rights to regulate this issue away from the state and places it w/ the federal government. The State of Missouri should have the right to create law that is more restrictive than the federal laws. This constitutional change is also a states rights issue.

Again. If you want change, then elect representitives that agree with your position, not a constitutional change that takes the ability away from the people that we elected to make the law.

[Phil Lilley]

More stuff...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_cell_nuclear_transfer

Somatic Cell Transfer

In genetics and developmental biology, somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT) is a technique for cloning. It can be used in embryonic stem cell research, in which the process is often called "research cloning" or "therapeutic cloning." It can also be used in reproductive cloning.

The process

In SCNT the nucleus, which contains the organism's DNA, of a somatic cell (a body cell other than a sperm or egg cell) is removed and the rest of the cell is discarded. At the same time, the nucleus of an egg cell is removed. The nucleus of the somatic cell is then inserted into the enucleated egg cell. After being inserted into to the egg, the somatic cell nucleus is reprogrammed by the host cell. The egg, now containing the nucleus of a somatic cell, is stimulated in such a way that it begins to divide. After many mitotic divisions in culture, this single cell forms a blastocyst (an early stage embryo with about 100 cells) with almost identical DNA to the original organism.

http://www.aamc.org/advocacy/library/research/res0003.htm

Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer (Therapeutic Cloning)

Cloning is the creation of multiple copies of a single molecule, cell, or virus. There are many different kinds of cloning, most of which are now commonplace in science. Cloning has allowed scientists to develop powerful new drugs and to produce insulin and useful bacteria in the lab. It also allows researchers to track the origins of biological weapons, catch criminals and free innocent people, and produce new plants and livestock to feed an undernourished world population.

Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer (SCNT) or therapeutic cloning involves removing the nucleus of an unfertilized egg cell, replacing it with the material from the nucleus of a "somatic cell" (a skin, heart, or nerve cell, for example), and stimulating this cell to begin dividing. Once the cell begins dividing, stem cells can be extracted 5-6 days later and used for research. The AAMC supports on-going research into SCNT and has endorsed legislation that would allow such research to flourish.

Reproductive cloning, on the other hand, is intended to create human beings by cloning human embryos. The AAMC and the National Academy of Sciences recommend a ban on all forms of this type of cloning.

http://www4.nationalacademies.org/onpi/web...2b?OpenDocument

In the somatic cell nuclear tranfer technique, stem cells that are genetically identical with the cells of a recipient's own body could be derived. A somatic cell is any cell other than a sperm, egg, or cell that gives rise to a sperm or egg. The nucleus of the egg (containing its DNA) is removed and replaced with the nucleus (and its DNA) of a somatic cell (such as skin or blood) from the recipient. The egg containing the transferred nucleus is then encouraged to divide until it reaches the blastocyst stage, at which time the cells of the inner cell mass are removed and cultured. The resulting stem cells would be immunologically compatible with the recipient's own tissues because they would not contain DNA that produces proteins that the recipient's body would react to as "foreign".

http://www.bioedonline.org/slides/slide01....er%22&dpg=8

Interesting reading.

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Amendment 2

6. (5) "Human embryonic stem cell research," also referred to as "early stem cell research," means any scientific or medical research involving human stem cells derived from in vitro fertilization blastocysts or from somatic cell nuclear transfer. For purposes of this section, human embryonic stem cell research does not include stem cell clinical trials.

The amendment says "no cloning... can't break existing federal laws" but acknowledge SCNT as part of their research using embryonic cells. Is this a loophole?

[Wayne SW/MO]

Stem cell research will in all likelihood lead to some outstanding medical breakthroughs, just as genetics are doing at a blazing pace. I'm in Al and Dans camp in that we should allow the research as long as it satisfies the majorities concerns for ethics and morality.

The issue of life is deemed simple by the media, but it runs from the preconception level of Catholicism to those who believe life begins with the first breath. The fact is that even Roe vs Wade has allowances for anti abortion laws, so even this law doesn't really take the firm stance its credited with.

The bottom line is that there is no way to please all, but everyone is going to have to decide whether the chance to save a life is worth protecting a potential life.

[Phil Lilley]

Stem cell research will in all likelihood lead to some outstanding medical breakthroughs

I agree. Stem cell research is going on right now- adult- legally. Embryo also but there are guidelines.

Can anyone state a good reason why this research is SO much better, showing that much MORE promise of cures?

Why is this proposal so important to make it a state amendment?

What about cloning human embryos? How far do you go to cure the sick... I should say TRY to cure the sick. Any scientist can hold a carrot in front of people and promise a cure... what assurances does the Joe-citizen have that they are telling the truth, or just wanting more money. Or if there a 'chance'.. what is it- a 90% chance? A 2% chance? How much does this 'chance' improve with embryos vs adult stem cells?

How much money has MDA raised for how many years and how far have they gotten to cure MD? I'm not picking on MDA- I'm honestly asking a question.

[Al Agnew]

The thing that makes stem cell technology promising in the first place is that you can theoretically induce stem cells to produce many different kinds of cells...cells for many different parts of the body. Problem with adult stem cells is that they don't have anywhere near the flexibility of embryonic stem cells. So far, I think the best that anybody has been able to do with adult stem cells is to actually treat a few blood disorders and cancers, and they have been isolated, from pigs, not humans, capable of becoming five different types of cells. On the other hand, embryonic stem cells are most definitely capable of becoming 200 different types of cells, since that's what they do...they are the cells that produce all the organs of the body. Most researchers agree that embryonic stem cells have MUCH greater potential to treat a vast array of diseases, compared to adult stem cells.

Again, this is not a money issue so much as an issue of whether embryonic stem cell research will be assured of being allowed to continue in Missouri. The federal government has already cut off federal funds for all but a few existing lines of embryonic stem cells. The state is still free to do the same, or cut off state funds entirely, and that would not change if this amendment passes. The amendment sets up specific guidelines for embryonic stem cell research in Missouri, while protecting the ability of researchers in this state to continue working on it.

And...if I understand it correctly, if you can clone existing stem cells, there is no need to clone humans. What would be the point? As long as you have stem cells to work with, gotten from existing stem cells and existing fertilized eggs from in vitro, you don't need whole cloned humans.

[gonefishin]

Wake up folks. This is very simply a money issue. The thing that makes stem cell really really promising is free tax bucks and the right to patent any resulting treatments, cures or drugs resulting from the research. That is what makes the researchers, drug companies and politicians drool and have erotic dreams. The other issues are just tools meant for no other purpose than to divert the attention of tax payers and voters. We get all nervous about and think we have to do something so we vote on it, of course is the intent of the wolves all along. Divide and conquer.

[Wayne SW/MO]

The more researchers involved, the more intelligence to tap and its easy to see that with the present stem cell supply the genetics are also getting thin.

The fact that a stem cell is a building block to life, can it be that much different then an egg or sperm?

Stem cell research goes beyond disease and can mimic some of the healing of Jesus. How can that be bad?

[Phil Lilley]

present stem cell supply the genetics are also getting thin

?? Stem cells can be taken from an umbilical cord after birth. I don't think adult stems cells are in short supply. Never heard that before. Embryonic stem cells may be because the only legal ESC's are the ones already in cryonic storage (frozen).

I'm speaking off the top of my head again- dangerous sounding I know. I have to run to the college and pay some school bills and can't research anything for a while.